Allman Brothers Band - Fillmore Box Set (Part Two)

Am I hearing a tenor saxophone at the end of Duane's solo on Elizabeth Reed on disc one? Sure sounds like one. Interesting. The horns provide a nice contrast to what we've already heard for 40+ years.

 

I just listened to the first two discs. Mix sounds great to me.

I hate the sax but thankfully it sounds more like a bagpipe than a saxophone to me (I hate horns in rock music, and saxophones more than any other instrument, including bagpipes).

Am very glad Tom Dowd intervened and prevented them from having horns in all (?) of these shows. I fear that one of my favorite live albums was very nearly one of my most hated (if it had horns all over it).

Hearing subtle differences in various live versions of familiar classics is a great buzz for me. I realize I am in the minority here but this is the same kick I get out of hearing bands re-record their classics; I love this kind of thing, whether it is live, or in the studio, demos, works in progress etc.

 

Just got the BR. Haven't opened yet but it appears to be exactly the same packaging as the Brothers and Sisters (which is just fine).

 

Regarding the saxophone, as alluded to above, the solo on "Elizabeth Reed" in the first set on the first disc is ridiculously out-of-tune throughout. That's about as far as I've gotten but that pretty much ruins the tune for me.

 

Any information about the new 2 Vinyl Records set by Analogue Productions?

 

Still waiting for mine to arrive but is it really that bad? I understand including everything to be complete but why put something in that is unlistenable? Seems to me something like that would be best edited out if it's that ****ty. It could just be a matter of taste but the overwhelming consensus here seems to be "lose the horns", so I'm guessing it's something I won't listen to again. Kind of a bummer as Liz Reed is one of my favourite tunes. Guess I'll find out for myself in a few days.

 

Well, there's 2 opposite opinions, right here in my house. Figures I'd side with Duane.

 

Have you had a chance to listen and can you comment on the sound quality of this download?

 

You should here the story the way Bill tells it about Tom Dowd and the horns...

 

Thank you. I'm not sure why I never bought it.

 

I think that they wanted to release all the concerts as they were performed.

 

They have updated the product page since I last looked at it on Sunday. They have added a picture of the front of box that was not there on Sunday. I am no longer seeing any references to AutoRip.

 

Is it out? I'm still waiting for the SACD (and the MFSL SACD).

 

I don't love the sax but it comes nowhere near ruining the version of the song for me..in fact I think the playing of the ABB on it is tremendous. I don't think you'll "never listen to it again" but only you can decide that!

I'm *SO thankful* to have these concerts complete and in order. I'd rather let my own ears decide if I want to listen to something again and not a producer.

Thank god there's still people like Bill Levenson in the music industry!

 

I got the set today(CD) and I listened to the first two discs, and it seems like they could have released those as LAFE and it would still be highly regarded. I love that they're not playing the tunes the same way, there's at least a twist or turn everytime they play something. As they liked to say they were 'hittin' the note'

 

Wile I am happy tyo receive a Blu ary with Ambiance in teh rears etc I would have been great to have included the original quad mix as a bonus on the rather short disc three.

At least I have the DTS CD so I am not loosing out to much.

 

Wow, can't believe we are finally hearing these complete sets. After years of all sorts of rhetoric suggesting that not all of the tapes were releasable for various reasons, it is an incredible development that all the stars were aligned and this set got the green light. The horns certainly do not make the songs they are on unsalvageable -- Dowd made it seem like a couple of sets were not worthy of any sort of release which is clearly not the case. At Fillmore East is one of the greatest albums ever issued; to hear the complete sets that helped comprise that magnum opus one of the greatest opportunities music fans have ever had. Well done Universal, and well done Allman Brothers Band.

 

excellent,

i know mines shipped but i am out of the country so will not get to crack this open for a week or too yet

 

I'm all ears - where can I hear that?

I did read something recently, but forget where or who was doing the storytelling. Basically the gist was that Dowd didn't know horns were even in play for these concerts, then he heard the horns (while out in the mixing truck?), and later told the band that they sounded awful, the horns didn't fit, to lose them going forward, and that he couldn't use the tapes that had horns on them to make the live album. Something like that. I'm assuming the explanation was that Dowd shares the same anti-horn bias that I have and didn't want that horny bleating ruining the guitar nirvana. I'd like to hear the full/real story though.

 

Horn. Singular. Saxophone. The plural horns were excised on March 11th, that's why we have no tape of that.
" Dowd made it clear... " yes, he did, by doing whatever it was he did with the tapes.
You're confusing that night, with the 3 nights we have here.

 

You just pretty much quoted John Lynskey's liner notes. Page 6.

 

Heard the first disc tonight. Whew boy, that is some smokin' ****! Man oh man... loving this so far.

The sax is not a deal breaker imo - don't love it but in no way does ruin Elizabeth Reed.

 

Like I said privately, it's still unclear *exactly* what happened. Tom Dowd's story (both from him and via others) had some inconsistencies. In one story, Dowd hears the horn(s) in the truck, then rushes the band after the set and demands they get rid of them. But in another he confronts the band at a rehearsal before a show. It's my understanding that no tapes exist from the 11th, but a number of possibilities can explain that:

- There weren't shows on the 11th at all.
- There were shows on the 11th, but they weren't recorded.
- The shows on the 11th were recorded, but then the tapes were erased or thrown out because of the horns. Except if Dowd confronted the band after the first set, why would there be horns on the second set? Unless they only played one set?
- There was only ever one horn player (Juicy Carter), and Dowd's complaints actually came from his playing on the 12th. Which then led to him not being present on the 13th.

Here are some of the variations of the story:

"As things were going I was sitting in the truck and the Brothers didn’t even know I was there. I was sitting in there and I was saying, “Alright, there is going to be a guitar solo, we are going onto multi-track, and I am just alerting the engineer as to what to look for. About 4 - 5 numbers into the show, the second comes up and taps me on the shoulder and says, “You didn’t tell me where to put the horns.” I said, “What horns?” I’m thinking that he is being a smart-ass and being funny or something. But no, there are two horns and a harp coming onto the stage. I am thinking, where am I going to put them? Stick them on one of the vocal tracks- I really don’t give a damn! Then when I heard what the horns were playing, I beelined it out of the truck and went backstage and as Duane came off the stage, I said, “You son of a bitch- if you ever do that to me again you’re gone and if those horns walk onstage one more time I am pulling the recording.” He just looked at me, because I had never spoken to Duane like that. Duane and I were hand holders. I had never accosted him like that. They did another show that night and I said, “Now, I want you guys to come up to the studio and I am taking the tapes with me and I am going to play you tonight’s show.” We argued in between shows and I told them they could put the harp player back in, but don’t ever let those horns onstage again or I am pulling the pin."

http://swampland.com/articles/view/title:tom_dowd

Note there it's "two horns and a harp", and they supposedly don't start until "about 4 -5 numbers into the show". It seems odd that the tapes would be destroyed if there were several tracks without horns.

Here it's three horns, but he confronts them at a rehearsal:

"Upon his arrival Dowd said he took a cab straight from the airport over to the Fillmore where the Allman Brothers band were rehearsing.

Dowd walked in unannounced. And he did not let the band see him enter. Dowd sat down in the middle of the theater and just silently watched the Allman Brothers rehearsing for about ten minutes give or take. Dowd was tired. He was pissed. He left his family in Spain to finish out the vacation without him. He was jet lagged. And he wanted to go home.

So Dowd, in this mood approached the band. Halted them. Called Duane Allman only off to the side in private and gave it to him straight up.

Dowd told me he told Duane basically this- I am here to record your band live. If you want to be recorded then you are to send the horns home.

Duane tried to protest about how they were a part of the band and all and Dowd stopped Duane short and told him look, do you want me to record you or not? Duane obiously nodded yes and Dowd said then send the horns home. If you keep the horns I will not record you.

Duane sent the horns home. Three of them as I recall."

http://www.allmanbrothersband.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=XForum&file=viewthread&tid=112822

Here it's "a horn player" and two nights:

"Though Dowd recorded both nights, most of the tracks that were used came from the second night, "because the first night there was a horn player, he's really out of tune and he doesn't belong in the band.""

http://www.allmanbrothersband.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=XForum&file=viewthread&tid=39632

Is there any evidence that the shows on the 11th were recorded? Or that there were shows at all? I've seen ads that only show the 12th and 13th advertised. That isn't to say shows couldn't have been added later on the 11th, but I haven't seen any hard evidence of that.

Could it be that the only horn was from Juicy Carter on the 12th all along?

 

I'd love to, might end all the speculation once and for all.

 

FWIW also...Disc One / Set One ...Duane introduces Juicy Carter, and Bobby Caldwell, of Johnny Winter's band, before starting Liz Reed.