Record Doctor V vs Okki Nokki vs VPI 16.5

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Upinsmoke, Jul 28, 2014.

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  1. Upinsmoke

    Upinsmoke Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    SE PA
    After picking up a particularly noisy / dirty copy of a Hawkwind album I am finally going to get around to getting a RCM.

    I've been reading quite a bit about the various manufacturers RCMS and have some questions and thoughts of my own regarding.

    One of the questions is (and please exclude Ultrasonics - not going to shell out that kind of $ for a cleaner) how much of a difference between these record cleaners are there?

    First from a cleaning perspective - does the $600 RCM clean 3x as well as the Record Doctor?

    Then comes ease of use - for someone that might clean 20 records in one pass does it make sense to go up to the more expensive cleaners only for the seen advantage of an automatic turning cleaner? I have no impairments that would prevent me from manually turning the record. Nor would I be in a big rush to finish. A few more minutes here or there is no big deal. Listening to records is a relaxing event for me so I take my time.

    For the more expensive of the two the ON can travel in both directions where the VPI only does the one.

    What about maintenance of the RCM - both during the cleaning and after you are done with your cleaning session.

    How are the reservoir capacities of each of the units? I was reading the VPI 16.5 overheats after a few records and you need to let it sit and had a capacity to only hold enough vacuumed up solution for about 6 records? (which doesn't sound right to me).

    Any and all input from those with first hand experience, especially if you have experience with multiple cleaners would be a great help.

    TYVMIA
     
  2. CCrider92

    CCrider92 Senior Member

    Location:
    Cape Cod, MA
     
  3. ssmith3046

    ssmith3046 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arizona desert
    I have only owned the Okki Nokki so I'm partisan but I think it's great. Runs cool and has a great vacuum. Very light aluminum construction. Love it.
     
    Pancat likes this.
  4. John Moschella

    John Moschella Senior Member

    Location:
    Christiansburg, VA
    I can only relay my experience. I think the old Nitty Gritty is pretty much the same as the Record Doctor. I bought a VPI because its built like a tank. And sure enough after about 20 years I haven't done a darn thing to it. It just always works. Plus its easy to get extra wands and replacement pads. Mine just has a tube that drains as needed into an external container. Never have to fuss. The big downside is that its LOUD!! I wear ear protection when I clean because it annoys the hell out of me.

    The NG always seemed kind of flimsy. My old dealer had one, always stuff breaking.
     
  5. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    Can't make any comparison for you between the three you mentioned -- I've only owned the Record Doctor, which works fine, cleans and dries well. It's fully manual so that has it's pluses -- you can scrub the record in ways and for a period of time of your choosing -- and minuses -- it's a slower process than with a fully auto machine. But it works fine. I don't clean a couple of dozen records at a time. Just one at a time before I play 'em if they haven't had a wet cleaning in a while, so I never even find myself having to drain the reservoir or worrying about anything overheating. If I clean three records a night it would be a lot in practice for me.
     
  6. tim185

    tim185 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    Only 1 record you say? Maybe a few?

    Woodglue. Hands down cheapest, just as good and can be even better than a RCM job.
     
    DTS-MA 7.1 likes this.
  7. Scott in DC

    Scott in DC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    I have a VPI 16.5 that I bought in the early 90s. It is still going strong and I haven't had problems with it. You need to change the suction tubes every so often but that's about it. I have noticed that the new 16.5 have a removable acrylic cover which I wish mine had.

    Scott
     
  8. mreeter

    mreeter Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kansas City
    I started out with a SpinClean which was ok, but I really didn't care for the dirty bath the balance of the records where being "cleaned" in. I went to a DIY manual set-up utilizing an old TT, a paint pad for scrubbing and rinsing, a small shop vac with a fabricated wand for drying.

    This method worked fairly well until I came across a very nice used VPI 16.5 that included two wands, one for cleaning, one for rinse, three different cleaning brushes and other assorted goodies. I've cleaned as many as 25 LP's at once with no heat issues from the motor and the excess fluids run out of an external drain I have running into a gallon jug.

    My experience is usually: buy the best you can afford, no matter what it is. I couldn't justify a new RCM, but I could afford a good used one, well worth the cost.
     
  9. eurekaiv

    eurekaiv Active Member

    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    I sold my VPI 16.5 for the Okki Nokki vIII. I mostly prefer the Okki Nokki and feel like I'm getting at least as clean with less effort but both have pros and cons. Here's how I personally stack them up.

    VPI pros:
    Strong vacuum
    Better suction tube design
    Record clamps to platter nicely

    VPI cons:
    Spindle gets very hot after 10 or so records
    Recessed platter/lid design really gets in the way
    Supplied brush is too coarse
    Noisier
    MDF construction
    Cork mat difficult to clean

    Okki Nokki pros:
    Compact footprint
    A little quiter than the VPI
    Platter access is great
    Motor turns in two directions (I really think this is an big advantage)
    Never gets too hot to use (biggest advantage for me)
    Nicer supplied cleaning brush
    Rubber mat easy to clean
    Aluminum construction

    Okki Nokki cons:
    Suds buildup sticks to pickup tube
    The nipple/slot for the pickup tube has the tube pop straight up when shut off and almost always leaves suds on the record surface (I wound up hacking mine off and just turn and hold the tube in place manually)
    Weaker vacuum
    Small clamp and ill fitting spindle
    Seems to be a little worse with static
     
    2xUeL and ranonranonarat like this.
  10. Upinsmoke

    Upinsmoke Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    SE PA
    So the VPI is made of MDF? I thought it was made out of aluminum? Wasn't that HW's claim to fame initially that he was a sheet metal worker? Doesn't MDF and water rapidly start to come apart after exposure?

    What is the ON made of? I'd rather have a cleaner comprised of plastic/metal than MDF.
     
  11. eddiel

    eddiel Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    The ON is now made out of aluminium. It's been several years since they used MDF.

    I think the VPI 16.5 in MDF but the MW-1 Cyclone is made from aluminium https://vpiindustries.com/clean-mw-1cyclone.htm Price is about $1000 so might be out of your budget. It also spins clock wise and counter clock wise like the ON.
     
  12. Upinsmoke

    Upinsmoke Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    SE PA
    So to get the same as the ON v3 I need to spend another $400 for the VPI? Where's someplace good to buy the v3 version? I did a quick google search but finding little coming back.
     
  13. eddiel

    eddiel Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Apparently ON is still having supply issues so it might be some time before you're able to get one. I'd stay away from ebay sellers unless they actually have one in stock. The ON website doesn't list a US distributor. I know the original one dropped the line but I think there's been another US distributor to sign on. I'd search the forum for the previous ON threads.

    I've not seen any direct comparison between the MW-1 and the ON but I'd be interested in seeing if there are advantages to the MW-1. There could be design differences that give the MW-1 the edge or still give ON the edge.

    EDIT: Just saw this. Looks like the aluminium Mw-1 is being discontinued and being replaced with a MDF version: http://www.element-acoustics.ca/news.php?news_id=123
     
  14. DTS-MA 7.1

    DTS-MA 7.1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    I just picked up some from home depot (tightbond II ) and a shower sqeegee going to try it on a $6.00 working turntable.
     
  15. Upinsmoke

    Upinsmoke Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    SE PA
    That interesting. Few offline conversations and definitely no mdf. ON seems Mia. Think I'm going to try out a nitty gritty.
     
  16. eurekaiv

    eurekaiv Active Member

    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    I got my Okki Nokki from Hidef Lifestyle on Amazon and it looks like they still have them. It shipped from NY and it arrived quickly so my experience with them was positive thus far.
     
  17. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    I have been very pleased with my $199 Record Doctor. It cleans even the filthiest records very throughly.

    The only downsides are it is fully manual (which can also be a good thing) and it makes a lot of noise.
     
  18. Upinsmoke

    Upinsmoke Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    SE PA
    Thanks for that info. Was it an ON v3 or v2?
     
  19. eurekaiv

    eurekaiv Active Member

    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    It's a v3 according to the description but the title says v2 so YMMV. I think my box said v3 but might be wise to contact them first.
     
  20. Upinsmoke

    Upinsmoke Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    SE PA
    Thanks for that information. I sent them an email asking about versions sold. See what pans out. I'm still digging through the differences between the various NG cleaners.

    It's amazing to me watching how manufacturers are just making their products cheaper and cheaper and then putting a spin on it how it's better in some way what they are doing. Malarkey!

    Don't p%&$ on my leg and tell me it's raining.
     
  21. ssmith3046

    ssmith3046 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arizona desert
    I've had my Okki Nokki for over a year now and appreciate it more every time I use it. I just finished up a cleaning session this morning and had an enjoyable time listening to records and cleaning records. This machine is compact and light, runs cool and works great. Someone posted above one of the "cons" of the Okki Nokki is a weaker vacuum. I don't think so.
     
  22. Coricama

    Coricama Classic Rocker

    Location:
    Marietta, GA
    The VPI does a fine job and lasts for years. The reverse on the Okki Nokki doesn't seem necessary to me. I scrub back and forth over 1/4th of the record at a time and bump it forward with the toggle switch. Suck it off and do a rinse cycle. It's a good solid machine. Don't worry about water damage, if you're doing it right and not wasting cleaner, nothing but the record and vacuum wand gets wet.
     
    black sheriff likes this.
  23. smctigue

    smctigue Forum Resident

    Bought my VPI 21 years ago. Changed the brushes twice. It's bomb proof.
     
    Coricama likes this.
  24. ssmith3046

    ssmith3046 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arizona desert
    It really wasn't the reverse op that sold me on the Okki Nokki. I like the design of it. I also like the smaller size and the lightweight aluminum construction. It runs cool even after a prolonged cleaning session which I appreciate too. I know that VPI is a quality machine so I don't think that record lover can go wrong with either unit.
     
    Coricama likes this.
  25. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    Do. The Nitty Gritty machines have many practical advantages over the others and do a great job of cleaning. They are very well made and there are only a couple of felt or rubber replacement parts that you'll need, which are very inexpensive.
    -Bill
     
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