Vinyl clicks and pops

I am a fairly recent vinyl listener too. I have found that it takes a little getting used to, and that a proper record cleaning machine is not a nice to have, it is an essential. I bought a Nitty Gritty 1.0 and it has been great.

 

Yes, the stylus is driven/forced by the groove and VTF, but against forces exerted by the suspension and VTF. To me (and my ears) these transfers are more positive and direct with a cleaned (and by all accounts higher friction) groove. But indeed, whatever works for you is good.

Back to the OP and "brand new records", in my experience cleaning does little or nothing about clicks and pops for those - they're either pressing imperfections or handling damage from packaging. With pops and ticks throughout a side, other than an unsympathetic cartridge/phono pre match, I might think of a severe static problem, for which wet cleaning will help also - but not permanently. Vinyl's not plug-and-play when you're used to only digital - not for everyone as Sid Hartha said.

 

Sometimes, clean, play and re-clean works pretty well on new vinyl.

 

Yes, I do that sometimes too, for stubborn ones - but there's still those that will never go away . Shouldn't be throughout a side though.

 

"How often does vinyl pop and click?"

"'So often you won't even notice."

 

1) No label color changing, using DISCWASHER with WD40, instead of D4:







2)You see, I am using it for two years on any 33 or 45 vinyl disc.

3) WD40 is a bad idea for vinyls, if someone is going to sell them, no objection on that.

4)A very nice digital silence between the sounds...

5)No stylus drag.

6)No vinyl wear.

7)No needle wear.

8)No needle skipping in bad/very old vinyls.

9)Old vinyls listenable again.

10)No static electricity.

11)Clearer sound, (less distortion/intermodulation distortion/needle/vinyl damping/cooling?).

12)I am not selling WD40.

 

That's good, because I'm not buying it.

 

Lion's share sometimes maybe, sometimes not, depends IME. And 'cleaning' might sometimes be influencing vinyl surface in a way that affects friction anyway - for better or worse. Problem for me is that it seems certain that beyond even 'best practice cleaning' there remains more to be gained by way of reduced surface noise and other profound audible benefits. If only there can be an easy safe permanent way to achieve it, at least that's how I see the opportunity. I remain hopeful that there might be a more 'organic' treatment out there that brings home benefit in a way that's easy to be comfortable with. Just how I see things, my 2p worth as ever.

 

In my experience, LAST record preservative has been the definitive product for increasing groove life and stylus life. It is a dry lubricant that bonds on a molecular level. It's been around for 40+ years, no side effects. I have purchased used vinyl with the LAST tag applied to the label, and have never encountered a noisy record. The stuff is amazing! It's recommended to apply only to a new record, however should be excellent results on a properly wet cleaned record. I do not use it personally, since my vinyl is mostly pristine, and I do not have any noise nor wear problems. A friend of mine does use it. There is no fidelity loss, no liquid or residue to clog up the stylus, no viscous substance to dampen noise.

... for the op and everyone ...
Folks, anything in the groove designed to dampen noise, is also going to attenuate the high frequencies and lessen nuance and resolution. This defeats the entire purpose for listening to vinyl! Even a minute amount of residue or liquid builds up on the stylus, not a good idea!

Steve VK

 

,

 

The main reason I will never do vinyl ever again. I've had CDS since 1985. I get the
'warmth" of vinyl but I can't go back.

 

I'm really not trying to be a smartass, but how did that answer the op's question?

 

I do not get the warmth thing! I love my vinyl, and have a nice collection of early press CD's (that I like a lot) Vinyl isn't "warm" in my experience. Many of my 1st press vinyl discs have a more extended top end, more vivacious dynamics, tighter bass, an overall more lively presentation than the same titles on CD. There's nothing warm about vinyl unless it is played on a "warm" cartridge or on a cheap system, or if the vinyl was pressed from a worn or inferior stamper, just sayin' according to what I hear.

 

So one would confidently think. BUT..............exactly the opposite happens in practice IME, and I know that missan and others have repeated with the same surprising outcome ! Using many and various agents, I can neither measure nor hear any attenuation of high frequencies and 'resolution' or tracing accuracy actually improves measurably/ audibly - and significantly so.

I'm not advocating just observing a very surprising phenomenum. It seems to represent 'true potential' or 'opportunity' as I see it, tantalisingly so.

So I totally get Hellenic_Vanagon's massive enthusiasm, because he ventured to try something many people would consider impossible or unthinkable and found a profound improvement. Unless one has heard it for oneself, it's hard to convey the excitement over the scale of audible improvement available IMO, not just to surface noise BTW. And I get why it might be hard to accept without listening first hand.

And knowing would have helped shape my decisions along the way if I had even been aware of the possible influence of friction in surface noise and other areas, even as a novice. I don't mean steering toward widely using a record treatment necessarily, but rather in choice of stylus and setup etc I think.

Once heard, never forgotten - one then knows what is possible to achieve, as I see it.

 

Yes it´s very interesting and wonderful that in fact there is another level of performance possible with vinyl playback. When many might think they are having the best playback they possibly can, it can still be much better, if lower friction can be achieved.

This is not easily understood intuitively, many things aren´t, it must be tested and understood, I think. I perfectly understand if people don´t want to use lubricants on the records, it´s not good to use that willy nilly. But to say that lower friction is not a very good thing for sound quality, is another matter, there are great potentials here IME.

 

Cleaning is one thing, but cartridge and phono stage make a huge difference too (maybe mentioned by someone else already in this thread). I once had a carbon Pro-ject arm on my Linn LP12, using the built-in stage in the Majik amp. Ever since I switched to a separate stage (Linn Euphorik) and a better MC carried (Linn Akiva) things became quiet as a mouse. The arm is a Linn Ekos now..

 

I'd love to find a lubricant that's proven to reduce friction and that contains no perfumes or dyes (which a lot of the repurposed automotive products do). This early '80s paper on the subject tested several then-available and showed that some treatments were very effective at reducing friction, some marginally effective, some ineffective. But it doesn't reveal the specific products under test -- the paper is more about the methodology of the testing than about the results. I'd like to try some lubricants, but only if they're proven to work and contain no extra stuff.

Has anyone tried George Merrill's Groove Lube?

 

I have personally concentrated the testing to different silicones and silicone compounds. I agree it would be nice to find a compound that is specifically addressed to reduce friction on vinyl records, and that contains no more additives than what is needed. So far I´m using a siloxane compound that is water soluble. It does contain a small amount of perfume, but the concentration on the record is neglectable, IMO. There is absolutely no needle clogging.

 

Just one question about pops and ticks : after a wet cleaning (distilled water/ethanol, then distilled water rinse and drying with a micro-fiber cloth), I always have a lot of ticks/surface noise during the first play, which usually disappear because the second play is cleaner. Any thoughts on this ?

BTW, the lubricant thing on this topic have inspired me : I cleaned a record with water and some drops of greassy/oil-ish soap, bathing the record on the that bath during few minutes, then rinsing under tap water and a last rinse with distilled water : ticks and pops sound less present (even if the record have a lot of surface marks)... work in progress

 

I myself am really fussy about pops and clicks I tolerate them only in between songs and if I should hear them during songs I put the record in the trade/for sale pile where I later bring them to my local shop for trade. I got rid 100's of records this way, that's why when I buy vinyl I make sure I can sample it at the store to see if the copy is clean. For some reason, i dont mind hearing crackle and pop on old soul / funk records I guess it adds to the music. Although, I can't stand crackle or pops on modern recordings on vinyl. Funny how the mind works...

 

Sounds like the classic case of not getting all the fluid and gunk the fluid has softened up from out of the grooves. In my experience it's inevitable when you're just drying with a towel which is probably only soaking up surface fluid. The stylus is left to dig that stuff out on first play after cleaning. This is where vacuum drying/cleaning does its thing.

 

The op is using microfiber which sheds. The microfiber is causing the noise. Just testing on a glass surface or computer screen will confirm this. A regular high quality bath towel, washed, dried in a tumble dryer, then well shaken outside, will dry a record without causing lots of ticks. (test that also on a plate of glass, checking for loose lint) There will be maybe one or two between tracks. After one play, there are no ticks.

The vacuum dry is also very effective. The towel dry uses capillary action to pull the water out of the groove.

 

Back in the early to mid 1970's, I used to use this to take out any noise, it was the SAE-5000, commonly referred to the "click and pop machine", they went for around $300, you can still find them on Ebay along with the later model 5000A:

http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/sae_impulse_noise_reduction_2.html

 

And largely music free too! Win-win.

 

Yes seems that certain 'apparently undamaged' records can't be 'cleaned' into being quiet I find. Then seems reasonable to infer such records were 'made that way' - ie noisy from the outset - and IME used records en masse seem to suggest it might have always been the case? I venture variation in vinyl composition/process might significantly affect crackle/pop noise performance - and perhaps this tends to stay set as it was made, even with ageing - barring mistreatment. Not wishing to labour the point, a friction mechanism might then also fit such noise IMO. Perhaps explaining why 'cleaning' doesn't necessarily help in such cases I think ie 'not dirty'. It is such cases where I've sometimes found good results with lubricants - again I'm not advocating, just marking a phenomenum to try to explore what might really be going on.