prog goes to hollywood

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by jay.dee, Aug 21, 2014.

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  1. jay.dee

    jay.dee Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Barcelona, Spain
    Inspired by the somewhat heated discussion in the Yes/No-Thanks thread I have decided to give a second thought to the seminal ex-prog albums in the early 80s, where the prominent prog artists decided to make the ultimate concessions to the dominant trends in the music (entertainment) industry of the time.

    Here is my list with a short comment on each entry. Although many of those artists had already released albums dangerously close to the edge, I have focused here on the Rubicon crossing entries in their respective catalogues.

    1. E.L.O. - "Time" (1981) - I do not know why the most dated sound makes it so charming to these ears

    2. Moody Blues - "Long Distance Voyager" (1981) - why am I so nervous to make it my #2? please explain to me...

    3. Asia - "Asia" (1982) - probably the juiciest condensation of what had been the most controversial in prog, but I do like it

    4. Yes - "90125" (1983) - partly unbearable, partly exquisite - for this uneasy mix it loses the place on the podium ;)

    5. Genesis - "Abacab" (1981) - pop music-wise it is probably the best release out of the whole bunch, but it is just too far from my tastes

    6. Jethro Tull - "Under Wraps" (1984) - well, that was really far out, Ian!

    7. Gentle Giant - "Civilian" (1980) - a listenable effort, but where are damn hits?

    I have deliberately refrained from putting King Crimson "Discipline" and Rush "Signals" on the list, since they managed to redefine successfully the artistic direction of both bands for the upcoming decades.

    What have missed? Where have I gone wrong? Your turn!
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2014
  2. jay.dee

    jay.dee Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Barcelona, Spain
    And one more to the collection:

    8. Soft Machine - "Land of Cockayne" (1981) - well, there must be a reason why I forgot about it
     
  3. tspit74

    tspit74 Senior Member

    Location:
    Woodridge, IL, USA
    I think just about every album on that list is worthwhile . You can't go on forever writing epic doings about hermaphrodites. Times change. It's okay.
     
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  4. Tristero

    Tristero In possession of the future tense

    Location:
    MI
    Would the Emerson, Lake & Powell album fit the profile here as well? Camel's The Single Factor would be another.

    It was a challenging time for the old prog bands. Where in the past, they had been able to balance artistic ambition and commercial success, they had to "adapt or die" out in the prog-unfriendly 80s. As a young fan of progressive music at the time, I was able to roll with the changes up to a point (I liked 90125 and Abacab pretty well, though not as much as the older work from those bands), but as the decade wore on, efforts like Big Generator and Invisible Touch felt hollow to me. As noted above, King Crimson was one example of a classic band that managed to successfully reinvent themselves. I would also point to Peter Gabriel here, an artist who forged a fresh yet artistically satisfying path for himself in the early 80s, but they seem to be the exceptions.
     
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  5. jay.dee

    jay.dee Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Barcelona, Spain
    I considered Camel's Single Factor for the inclusion, but I finally concluded that they somehow defended themselves, although at the price of the material quality. On the other hand, Emerson, Lake & Powell arrived a bit later, in 1986, and in my opinion it sounded pretty much in line with their previous efforts from the second half of the 70s. Quite conservative that is.

    In 1987 we got Pink Floyd's Momentary Lapse of Reason, which despite some production issues, had little to do with the stylistic turbulences of their peers a few year earlier. Of course the band had already managed to retain their stylistic integrity at the beginning of the decade.

    At the end of the 80s rock music was back in the mainstream vogue, which made still operating ex-prog bands either return to more traditional sound (Jethro Tull, Yes, Asia) or simply halt the activity (E.L.O., Genesis, Moody Blues). It looked that the acts which had drastically renounced rock aesthetics could not find a credible way to reinvent themselves once again.

    At the beginning of the 90s rock royalist forces seemed to have triumphantly stiffled the synth revolution and rock guitar was back on the throne. And nobody was aware how short-lived would be the victory of the ancien régime... :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2014
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  6. bRETT

    bRETT Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    I think the consensus is that ELPowell bucked the trend by doing more of a classic prog throwback. Black Moon however....
     
  7. Spacement Monitor

    Spacement Monitor Forum Resident

    Would ELP's Love Beach meet the standard?
     
  8. Lownote30

    Lownote30 Bass Clef Addict

    Location:
    Nashville, TN, USA
    Sure they can. Just no hermaphrodites, please.
     
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  9. NorthNY Mark

    NorthNY Mark Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canton, NY, USA
    I say, why not? Bring on the hermaphrodites! I'm only half kidding with this--a few years ago, I was at a concert where the opening act was a very good Genesis tribute band performing one song from each album of the Gabriel era, and I couldn't help but enjoy the paradox of hearing the lyrics to both "Fountain of Salmacis" and "Firth of Fifth" in the context of the the conventional, suburban-seeming, mostly-male audience. In any event, I far prefer such subjects to the likes of "She don't wanna go dancin'" (a line, I believe, from Trevor Rabin's initial demo for "Owner of a Lonely Heart").
     
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  10. NorthNY Mark

    NorthNY Mark Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canton, NY, USA
    I'm pretty much on the same page, and would rate and describe them similarly, though I've not heard the ELO or the Rush, and would probably put Under Wraps higher, perhaps just below Asia. I may be the only JT fan that thinks their two best post-Stormwatch albums are the very different-from-each-other Under Wraps and Crest of a Knave.
     
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  11. walrus

    walrus Staring into nothing

    Location:
    Nashville
    I like all the albums on this list (except the Gentle Giant & Tull ones, that I've never heard). I love 90125 and I love Relayer. Sue me. ;)
     
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  12. jay.dee

    jay.dee Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Barcelona, Spain
    Actually I do not find it in the same Rubicon-crossing category, not to mention its earlier year of release (1978). For me it belongs to the group of albums where classic rock acts tried to adapt to the modern times while still retaining much of their former style.

    Hence in my opinion "Love Beach" is a transitional hybrid album, in the same vein as the same band's "Works Part 2" as well as:

    - Yes "Tormato" & "Drama",
    - Jethro Tull "A" & "Broadsword & The Beast",
    - U.K. "Danger Money" (as Asia's predecessor),
    - Genesis "And There Were Three" & "Duke",
    - Gentle Giant "Missing Piece" & "Giant For A Day",
    - Moody Blues "Octave",
    - E.L.O. "Discovery"

    or, looking more broadly, Led Zeppelin's "In Through the Out Door".

    It is interesting that in most cases, Genesis' "Duke" being probably the only exception, such hybrid albums got universally panned, while their fully transformed follow-ups (if any followed) got readily embraced or at least considered artistic successes.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2014
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  13. jay.dee

    jay.dee Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Barcelona, Spain
    If you like the other albums from the list, you HAVE to check "Time".

    Remember the good old 1980s?
    When things were so uncomplicated?
    I wish I could go back there again
    And everything could be the same.




    A must-hear experience for every 21st century man born some four decades ago... :)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIJX6mKk6rY
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2014
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  14. Kansas had an interesting eighties

    then hardrock bands such as Foghat, Savoy Brown, Budgie, Nazareth, etc.,
    all tweaked with their sounds during the 80s
     
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  15. jay.dee

    jay.dee Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Barcelona, Spain
    True, although hard/blues rock bands usually turned to metal, even if in its lightweight form (pop-metal or glam-metal), rather than to any synth/new wave pop, typically embraced by classic prog luminaries.

    It would be interesting to hear what sound would have been adopted by Led Zeppelin. "All My Love" from their last proper album hints a synth pop path... :)
     
  16. true, true

    Budgie and Savoy Brown definitely got harder
    Foghat went rockabilly
    Nazareth went new wave and slowly got back their old sound, but much slicker
    Kansas went very synth rock, maybe not pop
    The Firm points to the dangers Zep might have faced
     
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  17. ledsox

    ledsox Senior Member

    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    "One Step Closer" from the first Asia album is one of my favorite tunes ever. Primo Steve Howe in a prog-pop setting.
    Then comes "Time Again", right after. Fantastic stuff. Saw a couple live shows then as well. They were great!
    Howe was still consistently brilliant at this time. I love that first Asia album.

    Still like 90125 too and yes, I love Relayer and all the early Yes.
    I have to pull out that Moody Blues album. It's been awhile.
     
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  18. seed_drill

    seed_drill Senior Member

    Location:
    Tryon, NC, USA
    I simply don't like Under Wraps. Tull did the synth stuff much better on "A", Broadsword and the Beast and Crest of a Knave.
     
  19. NorthNY Mark

    NorthNY Mark Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canton, NY, USA
    I don't know--I see some of these exactly the way you do, but others somewhat differently. In particular, I think both Love Beach and Giant for a Day fully cross that Rubicon, and arguably cross even more thoroughly into something completely not-proggy than some of those early 80s albums you mentioned before. True, I think the "Memoirs" suite on Love Beach would fit into the transitional, Tormato-like category, but the rest of that album (and particularly "Taste of my Love") practically makes stuff like Asia, Rabin-era Yes, the Moraz-era Moodies, etc. sound like Close to the Edge in comparison, IMHO. With Giant For a Day and Civilization, I think they are both equally cut off from their prog roots, but the former goes in a more new-wave or pop direction, whereas the latter goes in more of an arena rock direction. I slightly prefer the former to the latter, but consider them equally to have made it across that Rubicon.

    Ar least currently, some of those transitional albums seem to be pretty well-regarded, like Drama and Danger Money (as well as Duke, as you mentioned), though they are more polarizing than albums from the early '70s. But I think relatively few prog fans consider Asia's debut to be better than Danger Money, and even fewer Tull fans would be kinder to Under Wraps than to A or Broadsword and the Beast. I have always thought that both Octave and And Then There Were Three were somewhat unfairly bashed, though they do differ markedly from their bands' earlier styles.

    Finally, one could argue that even those early '80s albums are still transitional in many ways, and only by the mid-to-late '80s with albums like Invisible Touch, Astra, Big Generator, and The Other Side of Life/Sur la Mer was that Rubicon TRULY crossed, though Jethro Tull could be seen as a bit of an exception with the somewhat proggier Crest of a Knave (I can't speak for anything related to ELO, Rush, Pink Floyd, or Led Zeppelin, though, as I own no albums by any of them).
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2014
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  20. NorthNY Mark

    NorthNY Mark Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canton, NY, USA
    Just listened, and I can totally see why you would recommend it in this context--production wise, it is remarkably similar to the Asia and Moodies albums of that period, which are a particular (and only somewhat guilty) pleasure for me! For some reason, I always have a bit of a hard time with Jeff Lynne's vocal style--he seems to have a certain theatrical self-mockery, as well as what sounds to me like an attempt to sound more "loose" and "American," that keeps me at a bit of arm's length. But this was still a fun listen--no one would ever really use that production style again after 1983, including Asia and the Moodies.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2014
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  21. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo, Endless Mikelovemoney

    Nope, no dangers whatsoever.
     
  22. jay.dee

    jay.dee Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Barcelona, Spain
    I can only confirm your observation adding that similar deep incursions into the other side of the river can be also found in the catalogues of E.L.O. (Balance of Power from 1986) and Rush (Power Windows from 1985). Both albums caused a deep consternation among many fans of both bands, even though they had been already somewhat prepared by two preceding "Rubicon-crossed" releases in each case.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoRoSN02ifQ
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2014
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  23. NorthNY Mark

    NorthNY Mark Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canton, NY, USA
    Even though I like it, I completely understand why most Tull fans do not. In fact, when I first heard it, though I liked a few tracks, I was generally put off by the harsh, programmed sound to the point where it started to give me a headache. Maybe the fact that I enjoy some synth pop (like Ultravox, which I always felt was sort of "proggy" for a pop group) helped, but I soon came to really like most of the Under Wraps material. I sort of enjoy the Cold War lyrical themes, and just find tracks like "General Crossing," "Under Wraps #2," "European Legacy," etc. catchy tunes that work well with the production. But it is such an outlier in their catalog that I can understand the widely-held distaste. I actually enjoy Crest of a Knave as much or more, though--I think it is my favorite of theirs post-Stormwatch, in this case mainly for the "proggier" material like "Budapest," "Mountain Men," and "The Waking Edge."
     
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  24. seed_drill

    seed_drill Senior Member

    Location:
    Tryon, NC, USA
    Even Status Quo changed their sound on In The Army Now. Admittedly, I don't have the albums between Rockin' All Over the World and Army, so I don't know how sudden the shift was.
     
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  25. jay.dee

    jay.dee Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Barcelona, Spain
    And what about Queen? Didn't "The Game" (1980) cross the Rubicon? Or maybe should this event be postponed until "Hot Space" (1982)?
     
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