Has the vinyl resurgence led to increased sales in the HiFi industry?

Part of the challenge of a discussion on a forum like this is that we aren't always using the same reference points. I don't think that HiFi needs to appeal to the under 24 set. Those people don't have as much disposable income. You wanna focus marketing on the 24-32 set, people moving into their first apartments and experiencing that first bit of extra cash.

That said, the key demographic is to figure out how to market to ANYONE still willing to pay for music, no matter their age. If they are willing to spend money on music other than attending concerts) then they are ripe for becoming HiFi converts.

I do think some of the younger shoppers you see in record stores these days is a bit of an illusion. I see those kids in Amoeba all the time. Most buy one record and leave. Many might not even own a turntable (apparently it's a bit of a fad to buy records of your favorite band as art work). I don't pretend to know this age group. I do, however, see lots of guys in the 30-40 range in Amoeba walking out with piles of records. The 20 year olds likely buy more in volume, but it's the 30-40 year olds (really 25-45) who are the prime next generation HiFi market... just my humble opinion.

 

EXACTLY. I get Turntable Labs ads in my Facebook stream ALL. DAY. LONG. It's always an AudioEngine - AudioTechnics combo. You gotta market where the eyeballs are looking.

 

This is great in theory, but it's old school thinking. Consumers want to shop online these days. Manufacturers (especially of entry and MidFi gear) need to sell direct and online and offer risk free trials. That's how consumers want to shop, so trying to sell against that is a recipe for more of the same bad results.

Frankly, high end would be well served to do the same. As much as I like having a HiFi store local, I would MUCH rather get a 30 day trial of the product in my own system/room. I say that as someone who dreams of running my own HiFi store one day. The reality is that buyers are becoming less inclined to want to buy this way. You either go with the flow or get washed out of the way.

 

I agree the older folks are the prime market for more upscale stuff. But in order to up sell to them they have to have already been in the down market. By the time you're talking about people in their 30s who haven't already been in the market for dedicated home audio you're looking at a much harder sell. The future of consumer markets is always significantly shaped by 18 to 24 behavior and brand associations.

 

Yes, I too like the "risk free trial." The issue is will any newbie go through the effort to at least "attempt" a risk free trial on equipment that may be a little more expensive than they are used to seeing. There needs to be some way to allow new music lovers the ability to hear what a somewhat decent system can sound like. I'm thinking that stores need to have demonstrations set up in malls and fairs, much like one would see for RVs and such. "Step right up and don't be shy. You will not believe your EARS."

 

The whole point of an in-home trial is to eliminate the overhead of having to have physical demos. That stuff costs big money and is a logistical challenge. My background is product design and sales for tech startups, so this isn't an exact parallel, but if you have a solid product and offer a money back guarantee, 99% of the time the customer keeps the product. The key is in the messaging.

 

Free trial? Not a problem (maybe) with small stuff like Schiit. But who picks up the shipping on a truly high-end piece? Most of those things are heavy.

As large as a small file cabinet and weighing 223 lbs, MBL's most powerful amplifier 223 LBS! - And that is a mono block.

Hi, Fedex? I have two pieces to return to the manufacturer...... The weight is ....... Oh and the crating needs to be addad to that....... How much? How much did you say?

 

Here is the other problem with free trials. The gear is used after that. So the seller is left with a loss if it gets returned.

"Unit must be returned in as new condition" Let me tell you, this happens about half the time. Then you say "well if the returned product has dings then don't return full purchase price." The seller gets to pay an employee to field those round and round calls of the buyer claiming the product was in new condition.

 

People still read ads online?

 

Where do you read them from?

 

Again, people still read ads? Anywhere?

 

I do

 

You'd think that for an audio show they could get the mic levels right...

 

Apparently, since it's a billion dollar business that is constantly expanding. Despite the popularity of ad blockers in browsers.

 

I think that when it comes to audio, for whatever reason, people are more excited on things like size, portability, and WIFI/Blutooth compatibility than they are sound quality. I think that's because people, in general, don't spend the time required to notice the nuance in the difference in sound and quite frankly find entry level stuff to be "good enough".

For example, someone can look at a display of many TV's and instantly pick they one that they think looks better than the rest. With audio it takes more time and research and I just don't think people seem interested enough to weigh the benefits of more expensive equipment.

I'm sure there are a great many other factors, but that's one angle that came to mind.

 

Spot on I think. We are such visual creatures.

 

+100. None of this matters in the least - as long as the record companies keep peddling the disposable, unlistenable crap. There is a reason why we (and I'm talking the fans of the old days when music AND gear meant something) connected with "hi-fi".

Because it WAS "Hi-Fi"...not the peak limited crushfest that is sold as "music" today.

Take the new Spoon record - I desparately wanted to enjoy it and buy - but be it 5 dollar digital player with 128k mp3 or a 20K McIntosh system - there is no saving that album (and a ton of others). If the product is not there to begin with - no amount of hi-fi sales is going to suddenly make it appear.

Can't say I blame anyone - young or old for not caring about music anymore. What's left to care about if you can't enjoy it without a headache after three tracks?

VP

 

I believe the newer artists/producers have forgotten the importance of dynamics and air and how that draws a listener in.

 

That's what Eddie had to teach Rick Diesel.

 

I wonder how stores like Music Direct and Acoustic Sounds are doing relative to the rest of the hifi industry?

Scott

 

Great question.

 

This is my major disconnect with hifi in general. I'm an audiophile, but I simply cannot relate to most of these older gents. There are definitely exceptions, but for the most part they're out to lunch. Speaking from my experience, many of these older gents don't listen to dissenting voices or differing opinions, even the ones who claim to want fresh blood and diversity. They tend to be dismissive. Here's the rub, they want fresh blood as long as the new people fit the mold of what they like and deem acceptable. This includes musical tastes. They want replicas of themselves, which is why it's often an exercise in futility to have any kind of meaningful dialogue with them because they aren't interested in things outside of themselves and outside of their tastes, no matter how much they claim to want to attract younger people, women, a different audience etc. Also, the condescending and paternalistic way they talk about and talk to people outside of themselves is a repellant.

I chuckled at the "watching a roomful of 50 and 60 year old dudes pontificate" comment. If we are honest about it, isn't it always like this? Not just with hifi, but it's this way everywhere. As you mentioned, I know it isn't an ageist argument, but we have to be honest about the things we see. The ageism I witness the most isn't a bias against older people, it's a bias against younger people. The problem is that these 50 and 60 year old dudes think they're always the smartest people in the room. They rarely concede that maybe they're not as aware as they think they are, or that perhaps they should do more listening and less talking on occasion. They never meet the people they wish to attract where they are. Instead, they want to convert them into replicas of themselves (listening rooms in college dorms? haha). These people are in a self-deluded vacuum. They think attracting new audiences to their hobbies means dragging them into their vacuum, instead of them stepping out of it.

From my point of view, the problem is that older dudes think they can have meaningful conversations about demographics outside of themselves without the said demographic they are discussing even being present. Does that even make sense? No demographic is a monolith, but if you're going to discuss a demographic, then they have to be involved in the discussion and process. If not, you're just having a pointless conversation, and that's what most of these things are. These older gents think their opinions are always right, even on people who aren't them. As I said, they are like this not just with hifi, but with pretty much everything. Conference of women's reproductive rights? Roomful of 50 and 60 year old dudes who think they should make the decisions and have the final say. Discussion on attracting a younger audience to jazz music? Roomful of 50 and 60 year old dudes talking about what young people do. Discussion on the behavior of gen x and millenials? The commentary will be from 50 and 60 year old dudes discussing cliche rubbish and god knows what else. They haven't figured out yet that the first step to moving forward is reaching out and involving the people you wish to attract. They simply don't get it. Maybe one day they will figure this out. One day.

Nevertheless, I don't think this is anything to get worried about. Hifi will survive. It will always survive. Much to the chagrin of traditionalist audiophile types, head-fi is gaining steam. That too me is a viable entry point. I'm in NYC. I know people in studio apartments. They're not going to invest in a big stereo no matter what. It's not practical for their living situation. If they happen to appreciate good sound, they will buy a nice pair of headphones. Even the top of the line Grados and Sennheisers will still be affordable compared to the cost of a mid-fi stereo system. Most people won't live in studio apartments forever. Headphones today, potential stereo owner tomorrow. Still, even if they never buy a full fledged stereo, headphones are still hifi in my opinion, so the sky isn't falling. Those who are into better sound will always find a way to better sound. Much like wine connoisseurs and foodies. Magazines and ads for those things are good, but oenophiles and foodies exist outside that paradigm. I was an audiophile before I even knew Stereophile or the Absolute Sound existed.

To get back to demographics, when I went to hifi shows in the past, I rarely saw people in my demographic (young Black professionals). My world was starkly different. The people I know who are into good sound are in my demographic. These are my friends. This is me. I know they exist. We buy records. We listen to them. I'm not saying we are the norm, but audiophilia is not the norm anywhere. Audiophiles in my demographic simply aren't interested in these events, discussions, panels, trade shows etc. Why would they be? Nothing there speaks to their reality. I doubt they even know these shows and events exist, much the same way these 50 and 60 year old white dudes who have these panel discussions about attracting new blood don't know people like me exist. I passed through day 1 of the Afropunk festival earlier this weekend, and it was full of people in their 20s and 30s. How many of these old white guys have even heard of Afropunk? Do they know we exist? Between sets, most of the chatter apart from hair and fashion was about records, stereos, speakers and turntables. Not just Crosleys and Bose, but Pro-Ject, Grado, Klipsch and Polk. Certainly not elite audiogon level stuff, and they won't be having debates about cables, or using audiophile lingo anytime soon, but they care about good sound and most importantly, things they can afford. Life is hard. People are broke. Most of my friends are saddled with college loan debt and they're going to be stuck with it for a while. This is the real world, not geriatric audiophile claptrap gibberish.

Life goes on. Things will get sorted out either way. Let the old dudes keep talking amongst themselves. They seem to like that sort of thing. We're listening to music, going to concerts and living life. I suggest everyone do the same.

 

Well said. One thing worth mentioning, although I'm sure you understand this... there are some great folks in those generations (including a lot of the guys on this forum) who get it. Many have A LOT to teach us and go out of their way to do so. That's why the hobby will continue even if it looks different.

I think you nailed one key element about how to market to upcoming generations... it's gotta be about the music first and foremost.

I used to participate on several other audiophile forums. I eventually got bored. All they ever talked about was equipment, almost never music. I found this forum and immediately noticed that the Music part of the forum was most active. That's what I love about the people here.

To reach a new audience, HiFi needs to be about the music again. How does the equipment support & improve the listening experience for the kind of music people are listening to today? It needs to be educational without being preachy and recognize the past without getting stuck in that paradigm.

The only HiFi publication I've found that does some of this is Tone Audio which I discovered thru this forum. e need musical events and magazines that are more in line with this modern approach.

 

You make some good points Atane. Personally, I don't think there is all that much to worry about either. To pull out an old cliche, the only constant is change. There will still be people who appreciate good music and sound. I may not recognize or be comfortable with their definition of it, but so what, that's the way things go. I'm middle aged and 46. My daughters are 21 & 19. They both *love* music. Like almost all the kids I know their age, they primarily listen on their phones and computers. They barely buy any music. And personally, I don't know when they will find themselves in the position to buy a nice hifi system even if they wanted to. I cringe at the amount of debt kids these days have to take on to go through school. I don't want to change topics, but it's not sustainable. And if the hifi manufacturers, and anyone else who makes things that are not every day necessities wants to stay in business, that issue will have to be solved, along with creating jobs that can sustain a comfortable life regardless of whether you go to college, technical school or whatever.

Regarding the old white dudes pontificating, yes, it's always like that. They may be old white dudes pontificating in hifi, but I would say in my general experience that the old dudes, regardless of color are forever pontificating on any number of subjects. It's a rite of passage Atane. LOL Trust me, some day you'll be doing it without even realizing it. "Kids these days... blah, blah, blah" It's one of the eternal, ever changing, never changing, conversations of "old dudes." (I don't know whether I'm considered an "old dude" at 46 yet, but I know the "kids these days" conversations is certainly something I take part in since my own kids moved out of the house.)

Getting back to hifi, I'm sure it will change, and it will survive. Those businesses savvy enough to change with the times will flourish, those who don't will fade away. Here in little old Portland, when I hit the vinyl shops I see no shortage of kids buying vinyl. They are always there. I don't know what they are listening to it on, but who cares. I hope they are enjoying it. I know that I had read an article by Chris Connaker over at Computer Audiophile on the future of hifi. It was Chris' vision for where he thinks things are going. No more physical ownership of media, everyone's music will exist in the cloud, and it will be subscription based. There was a lot more to it. The point being is that this is one of those generational things as far as I am concerned. I won't be going along for that ride, not my thing. I like having my LP's, and CD's for that matter even if I do rip them to my computer. So things will change, as they always do, and I'm betting those hifi shows where crowds of older white guys walk from room to room listening to really expensive systems will fade away over time and be replaced with something else, which from what I understand it already happening to some extent with headfi.

And the young whipper snappers who are grinning and making fun of the old dudes talking amongst themselves will find out soon enough one day that they've become the old dudes. It'll take a while to realize it, and they won't know where the hell the time went, but they'll turn around and see that group of young kids grinning and making fun of *them*. The only constant is change.

 

Who In their right mind would want to clone the LP12. There are better turntables out there based on more innovative thinking that are cheaper. If you want a cheap LP12 just buy an old Thorens 150/160. The old 160s was pretty much on a par to the pre circus Lp12. Lp12 is a cash cow for Linn (for a while longer). The company probably survives on the expensive Lp12 upgrades and their streaming devices today.