Vinyl Grading -- thoughts

I don't see how shrink wrap on an opened record could contribute to warping. There's no longer much tension, as one side is split open.

 

Good point, maybe it only affects completely sealed ones. But to be honest with you, I can't see how the relatively low stress of cellophane can warp a vinyl record. I'm only stating what I've read. I think those thin RCA dynaflex ones are the most at risk.

 

It depends. If you display the albums on a wall, or collect covers of a certain type (see my Covers that Feature a Car thread), then you want a great looking cover. I agree I don't care so much how the vinyl looks as long as it sounds good.

 

Even when opened on one side shrink - if really tight - can bow the cover. But thats the key - the shrink has to be applied overly tight. It doesn't mean a record will get warped of course, just that overdone shrink is not good.

 

Shrink doesn't add value for me unless it has stickers or something. A cover will stay just as nice if you put it in a bag after tearing the shrink off.

So how do you all feel about an open record someone says is "unplayed". I mean, really, how can the claim be made and do you even believe it?

 

I've never seen open but unplayed. That seems untrustworthy.

 

I've heard the same thing, but I've never really found it to be true. I've come across records both sealed and unsealed that were warped. I've certainly found that most new, sealed records are not significantly warped, regardless of how long they've been sealed or how tight the shrinkwrap. I used to always remove the shrink if a used record still had it. I don't do that anymore.

I tend to agree with you about the condition of the cover. It's secondary. I think, however, there are quite a few people who do care. Under the Goldmine system, the condition of the cover contributes to the overall grade, even though a lot of sellers list the record and cover conditions separately.

If the shrink is still intact, it's an indication that the cover is still in good to great shape. It can also be misleading, however, as many times I find a nice shrinkwrapped cover containing an unplayable record. Conversely, if I find a record without shrinkwrap where the cover is in great condition, the record itself is often really nice too.

 

It didn't exactly stop a forum member (who has plenty of feedback and experience) when he took the plunge on this album:

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/beatles-white-album-1978-uk-white-vinyl-unplayed.376709/

 

I have no problem if someone says a record looks unplayed but to say it is unplayed seems a stretch, unless that person opened the record personally. I wouldn't place any stock on the claim either way though. I would like a play grade or at least a comprehensive visual grade including flatness and centring on an expensive record.

 

Agreed. Keeping it "unplayed" seems like a way to dodge any sort of liability for what could be a not so great sounding copy.

 

Yes, the claim can be made, because I've done it. One ridiculously easy example is when you buy an album that's issued on regular black and colored vinyl. The black one would be played and you'd simply open the colored vinyl to make sure it was blue, red, whatever.

 

Like I said, if you have first hand Knowledge the record is unplayed you can state it as fact. It adds zero value for me personally. A record played on good equipment won't lessen its value in my opinion.

 

With buying albums on eBay, I have decided to stick to sellers that I know are reliable. Unfortunately, it seems like the majority of vinyl sellers either don't know what they are doing or don't care.

 

So here's a question, can an unopened LP be listed as mint condition? I have 3 sealed 70's Parlophone Beatles LPs that I am considering selling. I believe one will be a tube cut and the other two are likely ss. Should I list these as mint condition although I don't know if they are or not? Since these LPs generally weren't shrink-wrapped as tightly as US vinyl was at the time, warping is unlikely.

 

You should just listed them as sealed. And describe the condition of the cover if there are some flaws. My guess, in this case Mint would mean "New Old Stock" ?

 

On a completely different topic than the one I posted above, I received a Y&B Beatles For Sale -1/-1 from an eBay seller that was listed as "excellent+" but has many small scuffs and light marks, and was obviously played many many times. Although there is definitely some crackle, I am shocked at how good it sounds for how bad it looks. Still, it would grade closer to a VG or even VG-, certainly not Ex+.

There is a 14-day return policy so I am considering contacting the seller stating that the record was (really) over-graded and offering

• return for refund (and be out $16 x 2 = $32 shipping) with a neutral score based on inaccurate grading or
• compensation (say, 25%) with a positive score

Any thoughts?

 

I would ask a total refund : LP+first shipping+shipping for the return ...
If the record was not expensive, maybe he will just refund you the LP and proposing to keep it.
Boths happened to me.

 

ok yeah, "Sealed NOS" etc..

thanks!

 

I think the UK Record Collector Grading system is more common in Europe. That's been my experience, anyway.

 

I sold a few sealed records lately but specified no returns if opened. I also offered to open the record and do a visual grade before shipment but nobody took me up on it. I would eat a loss on these records if I found a problem but once shipped I don't want to deal with returns.

Some people collect sealed vinyl to leave it sealed but I would rather buy a properly graded record.

Most UK and other import vinyl I saw back then was never factory sealed but some importers would seal it. If I recall, my white vinyl White Album was not sealed.

 

I was seriously interested in that one myself, and the sellers position of not playing it seemed a little....hinky..but to be fair, the buyer of that $300 album gave the seller excellent feedback. I ended up drowning my sorrows in the new mono re-issue!

 

My experience has run the gamut on grading- records very conservatively graded that are as good as any vinyl gets, and records that were carelessly overgraded for whatever reason. Here's how I cut through it:
I usually correspond with sellers in advance; for deadwax info, and usually express my concern about noise caused by groove damage. If it is an expensive, collectible old record, I want some assurance that the seller is knowledgeable, and I want to establish a baseline- let's not even bother with the transaction if it is going to mean I'm shipping it back to you a few days later because it didn't meet my standards of quietude. I have received old records that are in unbelievably 'mint' conditon from sellers that have been reluctant to say any more than 'i think it is a great copy that you'll be pleased with, but if not, return it.' Granted, returns cost time and money , but as a result of these 'pre-qualification' communications, I've only had a few that I've had to return. (I don't even bother if it is a 10 or 20 dollar record- i regard it as a 'cost' of being in this pursuit).
As to not buying online, I know of few brick and mortar stores that have the kind of stuff I'm usually buying. I suppose I could spend days bin-diving, but frankly, it's easier for me to do an online transaction with a reputable seller (or one with whom established a 'zone of understanding')-yeah, maybe i'm paying more than finding some gem in a bin, but factor in time, travel, and energy expended, and to me, online transactions make sense if you set the context first.

 

This is great advice. Asking one or two simple questions can, at the very least, help you decide which sellers to avoid. For instance, I once emailed a seller asking about his return policy for new, sealed vinyl (as opposed to collectable sealed vinyl). I thought it was likely to be a final sale but asked anyway. His response was that he'd never had a customer request a return for any item in 20 years of business. I guess this could be true, but I wasn't willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and moved on.

Another time I ordered a CD that turned out to be a different issue from the one I'd ordered. I'm not sure how this happened, since everything on Amazon has a code. I contacted the third-party seller, explaining that I already had this version and wanted an earlier version. I received a mocking response, suggesting that I was crazy to want another issue of an album I already owned. He said nobody but but me would even care which version they received. Amazon eventually refunded my money, but I could have saved myself a lot of trouble by firing off a quick message to the seller beforehand.

 

I am not sure if this is the right thread for this question, but since it involves vinyl grading, I think it is appropriate. How much does an edge warp affect the grade of a record? If the record still plays well, is it considered a lesser impact? Do some collectors avoid any warps whatsoever?

 

I can't imagine mocking a customer of mine, no matter how crazy I personally think they are. I've not done a ton of online selling, but it would not occur to me to accuse the customer if I listed something incorrectly, no matter how small the error seems to me.