Is anyone else using Stillpoints?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by FLEMKE, Oct 19, 2012.

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  1. FLEMKE

    FLEMKE Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    CROOK COUNTY IL
    I have not used the mini's.
    Tim
     
  2. Marc Brown

    Marc Brown Member

    Location:
    Greenwood SC
    I have had quite an audio odyssey, with Stillpoints being a major factor in turning my disappointment in my stereo to happiness and bliss. Placing Ultra5s under the speakers made the biggest improvement, with UltraSS and Ultra5s under units 2nd. This has been a long journey the last few years getting to this point. About 3 years ago I had a nice stereo consisting of Musical Fidelity amp and pre, Sony 777 SACD player and Audioquest cables throughout.
     
  3. Marc Brown

    Marc Brown Member

    Location:
    Greenwood SC
    Sorry about previous post, we had an emergency at work and I left it incomplete. So her goes. I went through an audio odyssey that may help others. I had a nice system that was well sorted with Symposium shelves and the old style Stillpoints. Front end was a Sony SACD player with Musical Fidelity pre and amp, Vienna Acoustics speakers with Audioquest cabling . Myself and friend enjoyed it much. About 3 years ago I came into some extra money and decided to go for my dream system. It consisted of an Esoteric SACD player and DAC, Audio Research pre and amp, TOL Transparent speaker cable, Transparent Reference interconnects and Shunyata power cables and Triton with Shophia III speakers and two JL 1300 subs. I was all excited and could not wait for delivery. I had much more volume, bass went much deeper, treble went higher, but i could not connect with my music. I spent weeks burning in cables and units and things got better but I just was not happy In fact I started feeling sick because I missed my old system. About that time Stillpoints was coming out with the Ultra series of footers. I remembered has the old style Stillpoints along with the Symposium shelves had made considerable improvements in my previous stereo. So I ordered Ultra 5s for speakers and Ultra SSs for all units. The Ultra 5s and Ultra SSs under speakers made the biggest improvements with the Ultra SSs under the units also improving all aspects of sound reproduction. From my perspective it is amazing how much micro and macro vibrations can negatively affect music reproduction. I went from dejected and lost to totally happy and dancing with wife often too late, who also fell out over obvious quantum improvement. These differences take only seconds to recognize by anyone. I really can not overstate how important it is, for proper music reproduction, to eliminate excess vibration from speakers and stereo units.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
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  4. Hipper

    Hipper Forum Resident

    Location:
    Herts., England
    Do you still use the Symposium shelves? Do you find they are required?
     
  5. Marc Brown

    Marc Brown Member

    Location:
    Greenwood SC
    Yes, they make a notable difference and seem to work synergistically with the Ultra Stillpoints.
     
  6. Hipper

    Hipper Forum Resident

    Location:
    Herts., England
    Thanks. I'm considering them, both under gear and under speakers. I hope to try them out.
     
  7. Earhole

    Earhole New Member

    BrokenByAudio... $15.20 divided by 8 Stillpoints would imply that you paid $1.90 per adapter. However, the only Thorlabs adapters selling at that price are the External-to-External. To screw the male end of the Stillpoints top-hat into the adapter, wouldn't one end of the adapter need to be Internal/female?

    I'm thinking of purchasing some Internal to External Thorlabs adapters to screw the male Stillpoints top-hat thread into the female holes on the bottom surface of my speakers. Before I order any, I would just like to understand why you (and, by extension, me) would order the external to external variety of adapters.
     
  8. Earhole

    Earhole New Member

    Oh... I see. You must not have been using the Ultra Minis. I didn't realize that the Ultra Minis were the ONLY Stillpoints with male ends to be attached to adapters.
     
  9. BrokenByAudio

    BrokenByAudio Forum Resident

    no, as stated in my post, I have the Ultras.
     
  10. shaizada

    shaizada Forum Resident

    Alright crew, I've just gotten in a set of 8 Stillpoints Ultra 5's for my speakers:

    [​IMG]

    The increase in sheer performance is superb. Basically getting more relaxed definition, a cleaner, deeper and more defined bass response with a midrange presentation that is smoothly detailed. Now, I feel that I lost some voluptuousness and midrange colorations that I really liked. A lower midrange nudge that just made music more akin to presentation of a dram of 100 year cognac vs a 40 year old Single Malt. Hard to describe but a slight glow in the lower mids went away. But what came in it's place is improved everywhere else...definition, transients, further integration of the drivers, bass response, top end response. All have been improved to varying degrees. Maybe a tube change to a second Mullard 6922 in the preamp section would bring in that extra MID glow...right now I have a Mullard 6922 and an Amperex 7308 green label in there.

    I am damn happy with these...but now the real hurt in the gut. Each foot is $700! Not sure if the wife is going to let me keep these, but I am going to try and make a case for it :)

    Here are the stock footers that sound perfectly fine as well. I guess, when I go back to stock, I will realize what the true loss/gains are. If I can't live without them...I'll buy the wife something nice to compensate!

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    This is another one of those threads that I could have sworn I posted to at some point, but maybe I'm just having one of those psychotic experiences again. Here goes:
    I did a write up of various decouplers a few years ago that was posted elsewhere on the Net. Basically, focusing only on the power supply of my phono stage, which is a tube rectified device, I tried a whole range of products, from inexpensive- Vibrapod cone /puck, Herbie's footers, HRS, Aurios, Goldmund cones (hey, I had these sitting around from another life), and Stillpoints SS. The Aurios delivered the tightest bass and biggest overall change, but at the expense of harshness that was simply intolerable (and my system doesn't normally default to 'harsh' or strident, even though I'm using horns). Most of the other devices were of negligible effect, though the Vibrapod cone/puck combo was a bargain surprise positive. The Stillpoints ultimately delivered a fair amount of what the Aurios did- not all- without any negatives.
    I have also been using the Stillpoints LP1 record weight- which is sorta like the Ultra 5, but set up as a turntable weight. It replaced a factory screw-down clamp that was heavier. The table- a big Kuzma, lost some of the propulsive energy that I always associated with it in the upper bass. But by adjusting the crossover settings on my woofers, I was able to compensate for that. And, by comparison to the factory weight, everything sounded a little more relaxed, less 'driven.'
    I talked with Franc Kuzma about it- he said he liked his ebony aftermarket clamp; the point here isn't that the Kuzma aftermarket clamp is better or worse (dunno, I haven't tried it), but that even the turntable maker himself wasn't wedded to the clamp he supplies with the table.
    Final, more general observation: i think results will vary depending on the system, particular components, listener bias, etc. I know that sounds like a cop-out, but I don't know that there is any one all purpose solution to isolation. I use HRS, Grand Prix Monaco, have had Finite Elemente and a bunch of other stuff over the years. But, the Stillpoints stuff is pretty darn good in my book, in my system, given where I am at today.
    (And hello out there to all the usual suspects! :) )
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2014
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  12. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    Location:
    PARRISH FL USA
    I'd like to hear from some of the world's top speaker manufacturers as to why vibration control is not completely addressed. My loudspeakers, for example, are stand mounts designed by Focal. They must be one of the largest hi-end speaker firms in the West. The stands are specifically designed for the speakers yet sold separately at some ridiculous price. I'd sincerely like to know why they couldn't have integrated proper feet!?
     
  13. tim185

    tim185 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    Id be interested in how these things compare to Sorbothane. Its widely use by pro acousticians in designing and implementing speaker/stand designs. Its also about 1,000,000 % cheaper.
     
  14. Stump

    Stump Forum Resident

    Location:
    Adelaide Australia
    COST
    Our local speaker manufacture told me for every extra $1 they add to there speakers will add x$4 to the final price. It would work out cheaper for the consumer to buy vibration control after market.A set of x8 Stillpoints Ultra 5 is not cheap and hard to justify if they cost more then your speakers.I have them under my speakers and happy with the results but also believe they are not necessary to enjoy my system.
    Stump
     
  15. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    Because the combined cost of the speaker with dedicated stand would be obscene? Because a lot of their competitors price gear the same way? And because if want wheels with your car, you gotta pay extra. :(
     
  16. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    Gary Koh wrote a pretty good white paper on the subject more generally. I think I posted it here somewhere. When I have a minute, I'll try to find it.
     
  17. BigE

    BigE Forum Resident

    I took Barry Diament's design ( with permission) to a local machinist. He made me 25 pieces for about $200 with 7075 aluminum. I ordered the correct size type ball bearings online. I have three each under all components and three each under each speaker. The effect under the NAD M55 was evident by itself. When making changes such as these I always do it incrementally so I can better judge the effect of each change on its own merit.
     
  18. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
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  19. tim185

    tim185 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    Thanks Bill, going to read now.
     
  20. rbbert

    rbbert Forum Resident

    Location:
    Reno, NV, USA
    Some speaker manufacturers (e.g. Genesis and NOLA) do indeed include proprietary vibration control bases in their better models.
     
  21. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    Location:
    PARRISH FL USA
    I disagree with the line of thinking which suggests that integral decoupling would be cost prohibitive. Focal, for example, has all the resources that anyone could dream of. I'm pretty sure they could come with a few ball bearings.

    The price of the Stillpoints reflects inefficient manufacturing among other factors.
     
  22. Hipper

    Hipper Forum Resident

    Location:
    Herts., England
    'Why don't speaker manufacturers consider integral decouplers etc.?'

    Cost may be a factor of course but we also use speakers in a variety of ways - on carpet, stone, wood. I also suppose like interconnects, power cables and so on, we prefer to have options.

    It may also be that speaker designers are not experts on vibration control. You might argue the same for amps, CD players etc.. My Cd player and DAC come with pretty sophisticated feet yet on my decent rack, using Symposium Rollerblocks gives slightly improved sound.

    Incidentally, after reading the Genesis report Bill Hart linked earlier, my speakers (VMPS RM30M) have, as well as forward firing drivers, one side firing woofer and two downward firing passive woofers. The latter are enclosed in a front firing port and the whole thing sits on a large foot. Perhaps someone could work out all the forces going on there! The designer recommended no spikes or feet because of the downward firing woofers. I'm going to try Symposium Svelte shelves under them to hear what happens. I 'might' report back!
     
  23. BrokenByAudio

    BrokenByAudio Forum Resident

    Just curious why you went for the Ultra 5s? The Ultras would be sufficient at the weight load.
     
  24. shaizada

    shaizada Forum Resident

    I am guessing you mean the Ultra SS. The Ultra 5 have 5 pockets of technology per foot. It was more due to performance rather than weight considerations.
     
  25. DaveC113

    DaveC113 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Front Range CO
    I recently got iso-acoustics isol8r stands.

    http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ISOL8R200Sub

    I used the sub model for both the sub and main speakers... it made a pretty massive difference. I wonder if the ridiculously expensive stillpoints are any better.

    I also have some isocup footers from Herbie's Audio Lab:

    http://herbiesaudiolab.net/compfeet.htm

    These also made a big difference under my components....

    If anyone has any comparisons of the stillpoints vs Herbie's and/or isol8r stands that would be interesting. The price on the stillpoints is amazing... they must be carved out of billet SS using hand tools only to cost as much as they do.
     
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