Rare Lennon interview who wrote what ? Lennon and McCartney

It's based, in part, on decades of research and analysis. There is no available evidence other than John's off-the-cuff remarks that he actaully "offered" Cold Turkey to the Beatles. His comments aren't evidence per se. John also said in interviews that Paul wasn't a great bass player and that Ringo wasn't even the best drummer in the Beatles. Humorous pokes at his mates? Perhaps. But, how are we to know? I'm not sure why John's remarks should be considered "evidence" in this discussion. He may have thought he offered them the song. He may have asked them in a heated business meeting (the transcripts from the 10 Sept. meeting does not mention Cold Turkey) and they scoffed at recording ANYTHING, until matters were settled. And maybe, just maybe, John was upset that his song didn't hit the top of the charts and made his remarks in anger. I just don't think John's comments are evidence or weighty enough to change my opinion. Ron

PS My evidence is simple. No one in the Beatles camp... not George, Ringo, Paul, George Martin... no one has ever commented that John offered Cold Turkey to the others AND wanted it recorded and released immediately. No one. No gossip in Beatles Monthly. No comments from Mal or Neil back in the day. No rumors from Apple insiders. Nothing. To me, that is evidence enough. I realize you don't hold the same opinion.

 

Supposedly, Ringo came up with the "tides of time" line. Ron

 

Decades of research and you say Lennon said Ringo isn't the best drummer in The Beatles? That is a popular quote that, from the very limited research I've done, has been shown to have originated from a comedian. Not Lennon.

(Unless you're going to unveil some of your research findings!)

 

http://thebeatlesnews.livejournal.com/265055.html

 

I saw a link and panicked (!), thinking I would have to fall on my sword...but then noticed you "liked" my post so was breathing a little bit easier befote confirming, via your link, my "limited" research.

 

I am actually quite a fan of the studio version of Cold Turkey, but I understand why you are not keen on it. Have you heard any of the alternative acoustic/demo versions?

 

A person testifying that he did something is not evidence that he did something?

Are you suggesting that because Lennon occasionally lied, misremembered, or joked, that NOTHING he said should ever be believed, if it's not supported by some other person's testimony or evidence? If that's not what you are suggesting, then I'm not sure how his comments or inaccuracies about other things are relevant to this discussion.

By the way, I'm surprised that in your decades of research, you haven't stumbled across the fact that the "Ringo wasn't even the best drummer in the Beatles" comment was never said by Lennon, but originated with comedian Jasper Carrott.

No offense, but you seem confused about the definition of "evidence." A lack of disproof does not constitute proof, and vice versa. Although no one else has verified that Lennon offered the song and the Beatles turned it down, no one else has ever said he did not do it either. The fact that Paul or George et al never said anything either way does not prove anything either way. The only genuine evidence we have is the testimony of Lennon.

 

Thanks for posting that, I'd not beard it before.
Gotta say I'm still not a fan of this song.
Of all the versions I've heard, I like Live Peace version the best, and mostly because of Clapton's guitar work on that version.
We'll just have to have a friendly disagreement on this one.

 

Their's a whole thread on that quote here where it appears no real evidence exists that John ever made that statement.

 

Yep but it's Paul we need unless Paul confirms it we will never know for sure, if Ringo says that John did we would still really need Paul to confirm that recollection, get writing Arnie hehe !!

 

I am personally in the IT MAY BE true camp if there is one, it may be true but there could be other explanations that do not mean that John was lying, the fact that he said the Beatles were not ready to record the song rather than " rejected " the song I think could be important. If John knew that he may have meant that he meant it to be a Beatles song and would have offered it to them had he thought they could get in the studion quick enough to do it. He did of course do Ballad with Paul alone but a Beatles single without Paul i think would be unthinkable. Any it is just a theory. Like i say i am in the IT MAY be true camp, but i think there are alternatives that have to be kept open...

 

Can we clarify if Lennon said this in print or is there tape of him saying it ?

If there is no tape then YOU MUST allow the fact that the journo writing up from his notes can make sometimes subtle errors, for example John could have said " i would have offered it to the Beatles but they weren't ready to record it " but the journo drops the " would " from the article ( maybe he was running out of words and had to trim words from it for example ). It is easy done and done all the time. That is why I say beware being so CERTAIN about things. " The only genuine evidence we have is the testimony of Lennon " sadly this is not a court testimony so in fact all we really have is " The only reference ( as opposed to genuine evidence ) we have is the testimony of the journalist quoting Lennon "

And remember this could all in fact be true, what i am saying is that there is still room for doubt, in a jury Room not even Lee J Cobb would convict on this " genuine evidence " we have but that still does not make it untrue for sure, it is just contestable.

 

I really tried to ask Paul about "Cold Turkey", but I guess that I wasn't the lucky person picked for this month's question. I'll keep trying for next month. But here is the VERY, VERY IMPORTANT question that he answered for this month:

As a child, what was your favourite holiday and why?

He replied: “When I was about 11 or 12 our family went to a holiday camp in Wales called Butlins Pwllheli. It was the first time we had done anything like it and I was very excited. We were given daily bulletins listing all the events happening in the camp, these might have been a Beauty Contest or a dance in the Rock and Calypso Ballroom or a talent show. My brother, Mike, and I ran around all day trying to go to everything on the list.”

http://www.paulmccartney.com/news-blogs/news/you-gave-me-the-answer-donna-simmons-from-the-us-asks

BUT do you notice how he never answers the question!! He is asked about what his favorite holiday is, and Paul tells what he did at "holiday camp". He is a very sneaky, calculated devil. So if I do get to ask him about "Cold Turkey", he'll probably start telling me about the type of refrigerator he has in his kitchen.

Arnie

 

Did Lennon consider offering "Cold Turkey" to Cold Turkey?

 

I think John just got his A-side and B-side mixed up. It wasn't Cold Turkey he offered to the Beatles, it was Don't Worry Kyoko. They listened politely, then said "y'know John, we're just not ready to record a single right now".

 

Attention! The use of unnecessary footnotes to explain obvious Beatles references could harm greatly your reputation on this forum!

 

I get your point. But could there be some confusion here about the meaning of "holiday" i.e. a day marked by suspension of work and commemorating an event (eg. Christmas) vs. a vacation? Something lost "across the pond" perhaps?

 

Possible. But the person who asked the question is "Donna in the US", so she likely meant holiday as in the USA: that is, a special day (not just a vacation).

Arnie

 

When I read it I assumed that Paul misunderstood the meaning of the question. In England, we tend to say: 'I am going on holiday', rather than vacation, so Paul has obviously got mixed up.

 

But still --- Out of all the things that you could ask Paul, that is the one that has been troubling "Donna in the US" for the past 50 years....

Oh well. I'm going over to the George Box Set thread to cheer myself up (at least, I get a good laugh over there from all of the people complaining about the paltry bonus tracks and the poor DVD).

Arnie

 

That platter has a kink.

 

Yes, I fully agree with you. The questions that he chooses to answer on his website happen to be the least interesting questions ever asked.

 

I only wish Paul had given this answer to the holiday question:

You know Thanksgiving is my favorite holiday ever since I met Linda. I first celebrated it with her in 1968, but we weren't vegetarians yet. So we ate turkey. And that brings up a point that has been on my mind lately. In late August 1969, John called me on the phone, asking me to record his song "Cold Turkey". I told him that Linda was going to give birth to Mary any day, so could he just wait a few weeks. John replied: "Oh don't worry about that. We still got the bed that Yoko was using in Studio 2 during the Abbey Road sessions. They haven't moved the bed out yet, so just bring Linda to the studio. She can stay in the bed while we record the song". Well, that wasn't going to happen. Anyhow, John couldn't wait....

Now that would have been a good answer!! Arnie

 

Yes, that would have been the obvious answer to the question.

 

One thing you haven't answered for me though is, why do you think this particular anecdote from Lennon should be viewed so suspiciously? What reason do you have for doubting it in the first place? There are a lot of stories Lennon told that were never independently verified by someone else or by external evidence. Are you suggesting that all such stories should be doubted, or only this particular one? If the latter, then what is it about this particular story that justifies it being viewed with such skepticism?

I'm pretty sure, by the way, that he told the story on more than one occasion to more than one journalist (though I can't find any references right now). If my memory is correct about that, it would disprove the "he was misquoted" theory.