History of the audiophile cable?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by dividebytube, Feb 12, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. LeeS

    LeeS Music Fan

    Location:
    Atlanta
    I thought of him because I was thinking of long-term dealers in NYC.
     
  2. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    The importance of cables was certainly well established by the mid-70s, as QED launched their budget 42- and 79-strand cables in 1978 (use of heavy gauge power cord for speakers was also popular by this time) to compete at the value end.

    http://www.qed.co.uk/2/about.htm

    I certainly remember the emergence of Monster's speaker cable (with its transparent sheath), but I seem to recall that much of the discussion was over its price, rather than its sonic benefit over heavy gauge power cord. Then all the buzz terms like OFC, LCOFC, etc. started to appear.

    The first state-of-the-art cable review that I can recall was for Kimber's Black Pearl #88 speaker cable.
     
  3. dividebytube

    dividebytube Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    I got into the audiophile game in the late 80s and cable was certainly a contentious issue. One of my friends had Cardas twinlink and 5C(?) interconnects - but even before that he used fire alarm wire or 18awg Radio Shack solid core for speaker wire. It was all rather strange to me at the time as I was more obsessed with the tube amps.

    great discussion... someone should write a 'history of audiophile'. The rise of stereo, tube amps, the 'super' amps of the 80s (M-L, Krell, etc), and all the other little odd things this hobby has created.
     
  4. reeler

    reeler Forum Resident

    They pretty much claim everyone was using generic stuff until they came along. From their site:


    The SUPRA story
    Prior to 1976 loudspeaker cables had no identity. They were simply cables. 2 x 0.5 mm 2 was the most usual size, while for high specifications the only alternative was 2 x 0.75 mm 2 . And then there was SUPRA.

    It began when we introduced SUPRA 2.5 and shook up the entire market with a whole new concept. All this happened in Sweden 1976. Since then the whole world has followed after us. But then the adjustable spanner, the propeller, the safety pin and Dynamite have also come from Sweden, so perhaps it is not so surprising.

    Since SUPRA 2.5 was introduced, other original ideas have come from SUPRA. The nylon screen, the Swift connector, the stretch-proof multicore cable and the Ply conductor concept, and the Assurance of Cable Directionality are all examples of our forward thinking technology.

    An interview with Tommy Jenving by TNT internet hi-fi magazine
     
  5. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    ideas I know nothing about
     
  6. Art K

    Art K Retired but not tired!

    Location:
    Corvallis, Oregon
    A visionary.
     
    Ghostworld likes this.
  7. Doug Sclar

    Doug Sclar Forum Legend

    Location:
    The OC
    I started out using 12 Guage speaker cables back in 1973. I was doing PA and was concerned with long lengths and resistance. That led me to using them with my stereo system and wow what a difference they made with the low end punch.

    It was hard to find 12 guage stranded cable in those days. Of course you could find it in electrical houses, but usually that was solid. When you found stranded it was usually thick strands or solid wire.

    I eventually tried some welding cables in 1975 that had lots of fine strands. That stuff was so fine that it was soft to the touch. It was a pain to fit into binding posts but it was quite the improvement over the standard 12 guage.

    Of course I had no choice but to use standard interconnects in those days.

    I knew Ray Kimber in 1977 and there was no such thing as Kimber Kable then. He was running the LA SpectraSonics office at the time selling pro gear including wonderful sounding SS consoles. I did buy my Technics SP-10 MkII w/obsydian base from him while he was there.
     
  8. michael w

    michael w New Member

    Location:
    aotearoa
    Two pages and no mention of the seminal article on the subject by Jean Hiraga "Can we hear audio connecting wires".

    :confused:
     
  9. LeeS

    LeeS Music Fan

    Location:
    Atlanta
    Any links to the article available?
     
  10. michael w

    michael w New Member

    Location:
    aotearoa
    I've looked and haven't found it online yet.

    The original article was published in Nouvelle Revue du Son No. 2, October 1976.

    There was an English translation in Hi-Fi News and Record Review, August 1977.

    Might have a copy of HFN in my library...
     
  11. Irishtom29

    Irishtom29 New Member

    Location:
    South Side Chicago
    First ones I remember were the Fultons. The guy made some pretty good loudspeakers, some nice recordings too.
     
  12. reeler

    reeler Forum Resident


    Their "Ply" cable is rectangular conductor instead of round. I think they were the first audio cable company to do that. The concept is still widely used. Cable signal flow "directionality" is another one that has caught on. Supra (like Kimber) provides scientific data for all their cables on their site. Supra might not have been the absolute first "audio cable" company but they go back to '76 and are still around today. And if you make the distinction that the cable is actually manufactured by them at their Sweeden factory, it is safe to say they are the first to actually make their own. Most all audio cables are not manufactured by the Company or brand (Neotec in Taiwan makes the vast majority of them).
     
  13. Mark W.

    Mark W. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Silverton, OR
    Up date on Pioneer cables

    Pioneer in 1977 introduced to their US catalog both high grade interconnects

    JC-1 Interconnect, 0.75m, stereo 2*rca male to 2*rca male 1977 X 1980JC-2 Interconnect, 1.50m, stereo 2*rca male to 2*rca male 1977 X 1980

    And some variation on the theme.

    And

    JC-200 Quad Star type speaker cable sold in 1 meter increments 1977 X 1980
    So at least Pioneer was making a more advances speaker cable design then the lamp cord like stuff Monster and a few others were introducing.

    I currently use a Canare Star Quad Speaker cable that is most excellent
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Brian Beck

    Brian Beck Forum Resident

    Fulton was to blame

    Fulton cables go back to at least 1975, maybe even a year or two before that. He was the first one shocking the audio establishment at that time with his wild claim that cables made a difference, both speaker and interconnect. Matthew Polk and Noel Lee of Monster soon followed suit, and being better businessmen are the ones more remembered today. The smaller Fulton Brown speaker cable holds its own even today for overall naturalness. He and erstwhile friend Bill Johnson (RIP both) were among the first to declare differences in the sound of parts such as caps, resistors and connectors. I think, for better or for worse, we can hold these two Minneapolis gents mostly responsible for starting today's tweaking practices.
     
    rbbert likes this.
  15. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Whoa, this is an old thread brought back to life. I think J. Gordon Holt of Stereophile is the guy who was really most responsible for creating the high-end audio movement. His magazine goes back to 1962, and he was talking about the sound quality of transformers, tubes, transistors, and many other elements throughout the late 1960s and early 1970s. Harry Pearson started Absolute Sound partly because of Holt's erratic publishing schedule, and both magazines started a wave that lasted for several decades. A review in either magazine could make or break a small audiophile manufacturer, especially those making accessories like cables.

    Having attended CES conventions for more than 30 years, I can tell you that the #1 thing the cable manufacturers tell dealers at the shows is: "you'll make a lot of profit on our products." There's a reason why Noel Lee, CEO of Monster Cable, has a garage-full of Ferraris and Lamborghinis.

    Cables are a huge, huge moneymaker for high-end dealers. I'm not saying they don't make a difference, but I believe their differences are extremely minor in my experience. And the reality is that very few companies who claim to make cables even own manufacturing plants; they source it all out overseas. In some cases, the same assembly line in Hong Kong or China is making cables for ten different cable companies around the world -- differing only in the outer rubber casing and packaging. Same internal wires.

    I'm personally a big fan of Canare Star-Quad cables, and use those almost exclusively in my balanced-wired setups. It's about a buck a foot, and is very, very widely used in the recording industry.
     
    russk and csgreene like this.
  16. laynecobain

    laynecobain Active Member

    Location:
    Lake Tahoe / Reno
    Monster always gets dissed by Audiophiles, but IMHO, their high-end cables are great deals. I just couldn't lay down over $500 for some speaker wire. Though, there's a deal going for a 50 foot reel of Kimber at one site for something ilke $130? I'm tempted to try but I highly doubt I'd notice much.
     
  17. chuck rodgers

    chuck rodgers Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bay Area, Ca
    I have Fulton Gold Cables that I purchased in 1977 along with a GAS amp and Pre Amp and Magnepan speakers and a Micro Seiki turntable . I know one thing for sure, that was an impressive set up in 77 in both sound and quality. Not sure about the cables with other set ups but this package worked together. I am about to buy a new pair of 1.7's and can't wait to hear the magic again.
     
  18. F1nut

    F1nut Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Mars Hotel
    Polk Audio is credited with making the first audiophile speaker cables.

    "Polk Cobra Cable loudspeaker cable
    Stereophile review: 1978 (Vol.4 No.3). Highly capacitive, this distinctive-looking Japanese-sourced cable blew up many amplifiers that weren't unconditionally stable. Nevertheless, it blazed a trail followed first by Bob Fulton, then by Monster, then by countless others. "
     
  19. GuildX700

    GuildX700 Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    When I was a kid in the late 1960's I used to take different gauges of wires and fool around twisting them, wrapping them around magnets, blocks of copper, iron, aluminum. I even took 2 full spools of zip cord and hooked it up for speaker cables and compared the sound to short cables and my varied twist cables. I didn't hear any significant difference so I gave up on it.

    Too bad, I should've set up a stand to sell cables instead of kool-aid. I might have made more money.
     
    octaneTom likes this.
  20. JBStephens

    JBStephens I don't "like", "share", "tweet", or CARE. In Memoriam

    Location:
    South Mountain, NC
    Here is a very interesting discourse on wire, from Roger Russel, retired McIntosh engineer.

    http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#misleading

    Some of that is actually funny. To get signal from one place to another, all you need is copper. In the early days, I imagine that lots of people were using whatever they had lying around, and if it was stuff like army surplus wire from WWII, then I'm sure that an improvement was audible when one switched to "correct" speaker wire. If someone spends $8,000 on speaker cable, then they certainly have the right to think it sounds better, even if the improvement is only imaginary. And I won't argue with them. Pardon me, however, if I snicker just a little bit.
     
  21. Warren Jarrett

    Warren Jarrett Audio Note (UK) dealer in SoCal/LA-OC In Memoriam

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    The problem with this thread is it congers up (again) the argument between people who can hear versus people who want to save money. Personally, I am both. I can hear the differences in cables, but I don't necessarily prefer the most expensive cables. I tend to buy old cables that used to be expensive, like Straightwire Maestro, Audioquest Lapis and Tara Reference. There is no question at all that these cables sound better in my audio system than Radio Shack cables.

    GuildX700: If wires don't make a difference to YOUR ears, please don't say that the rest of us who DO hear a difference are "fools". You just don't hear it, or don't care to try a simple comparison yourself. Yes, I "believe" my ears and you "guess" instead of listening to yours. Why does this make you right?

    The history that I remember is that Polk Cobra cables and Fulton Gold were the first expensive speaker cables, for sale about the same time. Expensive interconnect cables came later, from Peterson (e.g. Emerald) and Randall Research (e.g. Teflon TX). Does anyone remember an expensive interconnect dating earlier than these two?

    Warren Jarrett, Music First Audio. http://musicfirstaudio.com/california/
     
    norman_frappe likes this.
  22. norman_frappe

    norman_frappe Forum Resident

    This is a really good point and can pretty much apply to everything discussed on these forums. The $'s spent vs perceived value and return is going to be widely different for various individuals across the economic spectrum. Also people respond differently to various components and maybe even actually hear differently {maybe an audiologist can help elucidate}. I am getting to the point where I feel it's pointless to argue and just accept people's differences.
     
  23. rhubarb9999

    rhubarb9999 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    I am very familiar with Polk. I have owned several sets (including SDAs) and have a good friend that has a s set of SRS 1.2s. That being said I put them on par with Bose. Low to mid grade materials, gimmicks (SDA 'technology' does horrible things to stereo imaging and phase), and massive amounts of marketing.
     
  24. ssmith3046

    ssmith3046 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arizona desert
    I'm a fool. Pray for me because I just might have one of those jobs.
     
  25. DaveC113

    DaveC113 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Front Range CO
    This was a good thread before some folks decided to make disparaging comments like, GuildX700. :shake: :thumbsdow IMO, people who feel the need to insult others should be given a time-out, like you were given when you were a little kid. Most of those people probably never learned manners from their parents though, or how to keep an open mind. That's too bad... The GuildX post has been reported for moderation, we will see...

    Anyway... imo the most important advance in cables has been the invention of the Ohno Continuous Casting process that was patented in '97 I believe. I am surprised how many people have never bothered to try out cables that use UPOCC silver... it's head and shoulders better than any other conductor and only vaguely sounds like regular 4N silver. Most people find UPOCC copper is even better than 4N silver. Just be careful because there are a lot of fakes.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine