Kate Bush Live Shows 2014 *Spoiler* Thread

Well, I can only speak for myself but I find it amusing that many people here don't "get" that the human condition is such that one can - with all logical reasoning and deduction - work something out in advance and yet still be disappointed when it happens. Because logic can't always over-ride a simple human emotion.

My own experience was that I became fairly certain (after buying tickets) that Sky Of Honey would be played. I expected it. But I was still mildly disappointed when it came to pass.

Now, folks here have chided me (not directly, but certainly indirectly) for not "paying enough attention"; they've criticised me for not being a "true fan" and have bemoaned the fact that, apparently, I don't really know Kate Bush well enough if I thought she was going to trot out a Greatest Hits set.

That totally misses the point. As a human being, I'm simply not capable of using pure logic and reasoning to utterly block out a simple human response which was - at the time - that I didn't enjoy Sky of Honey as much as I would have enjoyed a set comprising a greater variety of sources. (Note I didn't say "hits".) That may well be a failing on my part, but I didn't realise I was here to be judged on my own merits; I was merely providing some feedback on my own experience of a show.

Perhaps this says more about folks' abilities to accept the variety of fandom without offering judgment than it does about my own abilities, but hey-ho.

For what it's worth, though, I'd reiterate that I found Sky of Honey to be OK. Nice enough. Just not as great a show as I thought it might otherwise have been. And it overstayed it's welcome FOR ME because a) the songs just aren't my favourites (sorry about that) and, b) the visual aspect just wasn't as engaging as Ninth Wave had been.

If any or all of that amuses you (and I don't mean to pick on you, especially Rickhorse) then I'm glad to have provided some entertainment.

 

Paul, although I have not been lucky enough to see the show, I believe that we think alike. I agree with everything you have said here.

The view here nevertheless seems to be that we have to love unconditionally what Kate has decided to deliver because that is her artistic statement. Well, maybe so but that does not mean there could not have been a better and more satisfying artistic statement in the eyes of some of her fans. That is a legitimate point of view to hold. Of course she is an iconoclast and that is what we love about her but her 35 year absence from the stage does not make her above all criticism, particularly from those who have supported her during those 35 years. Disappointment that favourite songs (and as you say, not necessarily hits) have been omitted is a perfectly normal and understandable reaction.

 

£82 tickets showing for sale a minute ago if any one is still trying to book.

 

And so it has been for many years. Going all the way back to rec.music.gaffa, the Usenet group for Kate Bush that started in the mid '80s (before what most of you consider the Web even existed). There's a certain Kult of Kate that does not tolerate any dissent from the idea that what Kate has done is the RIGHT approach, and it up to anyone else to simply figure that out or get out and be quiet.

In some sense, it's like that old episode of The Twilight Zone: "It's a very good thing you did. A very good thing..."

Personally, I think there should be ample room for civil dissent. And Kate is not in the room, so I think it's acceptable to offer criticism that some of her choices might not be perfect.

 

Where & what day?

 

It isn't even about offering dissent or criticism. Its just about verbalising ones feelings in response to art. I've said before that I admire what she has chosen to do and think that, if it's what it took to get her on stage then great, but it still didn't entertain me as much as I had hoped

 

Paul, you do seem to have taken some of the remarks personally, you might be right and some of the comments by others might have been directed at you but any points I have made have been purely to address points that others have made, they haven't been directed at the person.

Of course people will feel what they feel, be it disappointment or whatever no matter how logical arguments against what they base their feelings on might be. Speaking for myself my stance on it is that I'm accepting and grateful of the set that Kate has chosen, it's also pretty much in line with what I'd expected, based on what I've read of Kate's apparent disregard of her early work, the way she announced the show and who to, the title of the show and early news that it would feature The Ninth Wave. It does puzzle me that some people seemingly can't take it for what it is but that's mainly from the angle of "resistance to facts can only lead to frustration".

As it happens, I could name a few changes that would make the set nearer to ideal to my tastes but I won't because that isn't the way I want to think about it.

 

The problem is exactly who makes the determination of "better" and "more satisfying artistic statement"? That's precisely why this discussion is going around and around.

There isn't a single person who's posted in this thread that hasn't specifically stated that he/she would have liked hearing certain songs. Whether those songs are personal favorites or are supposedly more "artistically representative" (whatever that means as that's completely subjective as well: I know I personally don't consider "Wuthering Heights" nevermind "Wow" (!) representative of her career by any stretch) - we all have songs we'd like to have heard but won't get to and we've expressed disappointment re same.

I think where some of us draw the line is that we acknowledge that Kate made the decisions she made for whatever reasons she made them and we're willing to go with that. After not performing for so long - and this most likely being it for the remainder of her career - what is really the point of arguing about what she could've done? That "better" set list would almost certainly have had some people arguing about it just as much as the current one does.

On that note - though my show date is still three weeks away - I'll weigh in on the Sky of Honey/Ninth Wave discussion and which should have gone first in the show. I, as many do, consider The Ninth Wave a much stronger piece of work overall so can see the argument that it should've been "saved for later" in the show. That said, if you're in the audience and know it's coming (and is theoretically going to the highlight of your evening), would one be happy waiting 70 minutes+ before hearing it? I think that would've caused more dissatisfaction for many than the current running order does. Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt the Aerial segment currently feels anticlimactic but I'm not convinced it could've been handled differently if both suites have to be incorporated into a single show. Now, one could certainly argue that both pieces might have benefitted from being staged in two separate productions (rounded out by "hits"/career-spanning material) but that was never realistically going happen, was it? I'm sure by next week, she'll already be thinking, "holy mother, when will this [current] run be over?"

It's not about "accepting any ol' thing" that Kate Bush is giving us: for me, it's just the latest marker placed on the road she's travelled and, as always, she's leaving it completely up to you to choose whether or not to keep down the path she's laid out. To *want* something different that what she's given, be it on stage or on a recording - why? That, by definition, makes it no longer her. In my humble opinion.

 

Oops, gone now. Have to be quick!

 

Maybe GubGub got it!

 

Not me. I didn't know what site to look on. Hence my question.

 

I have noticed tickets become available on http://www.eventim.co.uk/ many times over the past few months. If you have a smartphone their app is good and can be checked quickly a few times a day (It's how I eventually got tickets on March 28th after giving up with the TicketMaster and Eventim websites).

 

I think part of the issue is that the "disappointment" discussion has been overblown and unbalanced in the thread. If one looks at the comments from those forum members that have actually attended the shows, there has been little disappointment noted, outside one attendee for whom "Sky of Honey" was never a personal favorite (and even in that case the overall experience was positive). Rather, the comments from attendess have been pretty much universally enthusiastic. Critical comment in the press the same. I am sure as more forum members see the show that will continue here.

Myself, I've always loved Sky of Honey, and I was very happy to have been able to see it performed live. Sure, I would have liked to have seen some other favorites in the concert, but their omission in no way lessened my enjoyment of the show. This may be the only chance to see Kate Bush for many of us, and I think it is safe to say anyone lucky enough to get tickets is going to immensely enjoy it.

 

Yo

You must check every time you are online.that's how I got my ticket. Boring but at least I eventually got lucky.

 

False alarm on this. Apparently Ball was talking about the new Streisand album. Thought it was too good to be true.

 

It is interesting that everyone seems to be assuming that this will be the last time and that she will disappear for another 35 years. Surely it is equally possible that having returned to the stage and to such acclaim she will get a taste for it and want to do it again. I hope so. Perhaps she will turn in to Bob Dylan and embark on a never ending tour!

Some of the motivation to stay home over the last 20 years or so no longer applies quite a strongly.

 

Fear not, my friend: I haven't taken any comments personally (although there have been so few reviews from Forumites posted so far that it might have been that some people were inadvertently taking a dig at me). What I really wanted to do, though, was draw to some posters' attention that we're dealing with feelings - those things that live in a netherworld beyond logical reasoning. And for that reason, I get annoyed when feelings get criticised or complained about.

Some of the comments posted did really seem to be angry. I don't remember (and am not bothered about referencing) which poster it was, but someone actually said that it made their blood boil to read people criticising Kate. I think the phrase was something like "why is that the complainers always get the tickets?". If I'm honest, the response I typed but didn't post would probably have got me kicked off the Forum for good. And I just wanted to take the time to express, more politely, that I thought that line of argument was extremely unfair and to explain why. I think this possibly hits home more successfully if couched in personal terms rather than theoretical rhetoric. So that's the way I went with it.

More to the point, several posts have complained about the, um, complaints about Kate's setlist and I don't think anyone actually has criticised Kate here. brimuchmuze makes the point very well:

I suspect that the "one attendee" brimuchmuze refers to is me. And I even made an effort to give the thread something more positive to discuss but that post was completed ignored by one and all

ConnieGuitar makes a further relevant point:

Exactly. My comments were just one person's attempt at offering up their own personal experience of a unique night. Unfortunately for me, it wasn't the perfect night of Kate-bliss I'd wished for but it was still an experience I wouldn't swap.

It isn't about whether Sky of Honey is better or worse than "hits" or earlier material. My own observation was merely that it wasn't my favourite disc of Kate's music, in which case it's hardly surprising that it didn't provide me with the maximum amount of entertainment I might have had. Unfortunately, it got taken out of context and now it's all this...

Finally, I want to go back to another point ConnieGuitar makes:

I think this is a fair point and can see the merit of the argument but... (and you knew there was going to be one ) I was in the audience and knew it was coming and, just like all the best desserts, would have been happy to wait for it. In fact, it was the anticipation that it was still to come that added to the joy of what preceded it. Now, whether that would have become wearing as Sky of Honey progressed, I can't say because it didn't happen that way, but what I do know is that I found myself, in places, looking forward to what the encore might be and hoping that would save the day. And, if I'm honest, I think I'd have been in better humour throughout Sky of Honey had I known that what lay on the other side was worth the patient wait.

But that's just me: I have the patience of a saint if I just know that something good is gonna happen. So for me, the setlist would have been vastly improved if it had started with Sky of Honey, if Kate had returned from the interval with her mini set of miscellany, moved into Ninth Wave as the set built and then finished with the encore.

 

Paul - thanks for your thoughtful post (not just the quoted bit; all of it was a great read). I certainly don't disagree with your feelings here though I'm not as confident that many would exhibit your level of patience! I could just imagine a fair few audience members getting a little restless with that much music - some of it perhaps not so well-liked or well-known? - before getting to the "showstopper" section.

Perhaps it's the cynical New Yorker in me but I can't help but think that if a) the order was switched and b) one could easily do so without incurring the wrath of one's fellow patrons, some might inappropriately use the Sky of Honey section as an excuse for an extended bar/bathroom break or, more likely, a chance to hit the ridiculously overwhelmed merchandise stalls.

All I know is I can't wait, so I again thank you and the others who've already been for your reviews. I do feel like there's been a little bit of winding up going on in the thread lately but I think most in here are fairly respectful of everyone else's viewpoint.

 

Ah, you Americans: you've just got no stamina. You want everything NOW!

Seriously, I take your point. My feeling in the room - and you really do need to be there to appreciate it - was that Kate could have played anything for that first hour: the audience was just overwhelmed at seeing her on a stage. In fact, one could sense the surprise in the audience when the big hits (first, Hounds of Love, then RUTH) were rolled out so early. And I was quite surprised when Ninth Wave appeared so soon (although the link from King of the Mountain worked very well).

So, my own sense - and you may form a different view when you've witnessed it for yourself - was that Sky of Honey may well have been more easily tolerated (if that's the right word) while the novelty and excitement was still at its peak (after the break, seeing Kate on stage was, you know, just so pre-interval ).

But I really do want to talk up the good bits. Because there really were many of them and it is fantastic having Kate back on stage again. At the risk of increasing my chances of disappointment again I truly hope this isn't the last time we see our Kate.

 

50 Words is an album that requires patience. It really can't be listened to while multi-tasking - the melodies are too subtle, the lyrics too haunted and the quiet piano passages far too long. This is probably Kate decided not to perform the album (save one track) live.

"A Sky of Honey" from Aerial (which she does perform) is the exact opposite. It's professionally executed and recorded, with lively melodies, uplifting lyrical passages, and on side 4, it builds to climax with a series of pop-rock tracks that wouldn't sound out of place on a Donald Fagan album. It lacks any sense of experimentation or strangeness, and from that perspective, I can understand some hard-core Kate fans not liking it
(has Kate ever done a more "commercial" sounding side of music than side 4 of Aerial?). But, it's foot-tapping stuff, and you can multi-task to it. . . . . .

 

I don't think the initial criticism was directed at you. It was towards those who were expecting a greatest hits show before buying a ticket. All you've done is criticise an aspect of the show you didn't like, which is fair. At least you've seen it. There are a few on here rearranging the setlist without having gone to see the show for themselves.

 

To be honest I regret reading and joining in this thread now. It is 3 weeks today when I attend the show and this thread has put a dampener on it for me. I should have done what earlier fans on the other KB thread have done and avoided it.

 

That's a real shame, bob60. I hope my comments haven't contributed to the dampening of your enthusiasm.

Two thoughts (each slightly contradictory): firstly, I don't think there's anything that should dampen your enthusiasm. The first half is wonderful, utterly wonderful. The second half wasn't so much my bag but so what? You're not me. And the atmosphere. Just drink it up.

Secondly, I suspect that my own sense of mild (and I emphasise the word) disappointment was borne from my own inability to keep a lid on my excitement. I built this up into something it could never be. No wonder I felt mildly underwhelmed during part of it.

If you attend this show with a more balanced, reasonable expectation of how much you are likely to enjoy it then, perhaps, you'll actually enjoy it more...

Either way, do not be regretful. You will have a fantastic night, make no mistake. And it is utterly, utterly worth the wait.

 

Blimey, posting something positive sure is a good conversation stopper!

 

Yeah people frequently get those two confused... Did Streisand ever cover Babooshka?