Speaker cable upgrade- advice appreciated

Hey, I was a slow convert over the years, but I am on the low end of the hi-fi food chain and have been told by those with more expensive systems that my gear sounds like garbage. So I probably lack the bona fides, but I still use cables to get the best sound I can. If something improves the sound I have, I am really interested in why I hear what I hear. The idea that it is all in my head doesn’t always satisfy me because, for example, if I am picking up lyrics and info across the frequency spectrum on records I have listened to hundreds of times, I would have to believe I had been hearing these details all along and psychologically blocking them, waiting for some upgrade to justify my allowing myself to hear what I was not before. Sure, a bump in frequency can do this, but I can actually evaluate the difference between a bump in frequency spotlighting some detail and new detail being revealed across the frequency spectrum on every recording.

 

This is a logical fallacy. You are twisting my words and then shooting down a message that I never delivered. Allow me to be as direct as possible: we have so many members who are simply NOT INTERESTED in foreground listening. Nothing wrong with that. But why post in audiophile threads!?

Music can be enjoyed from a 100 yards downwind of an outdoor concert. Music can be enjoyed on am radio. Music can be enjoyed while doing two or three other things at the same time. Foreground listening is important to a fraction of a percent of music lovers. Let us have just one little tiny piece of the internet! Those who engage in hours and hours of foreground listening are sometimes interested in improving sound quality. Inevitably, there will come a time to address cables. Those who have experience will share their views if the threat of ridicule is reduced. We need more posts from experienced members and far fewer from those who've never heard seriously hi-fidelity.

 

On this we certainly agree: When I hear more detail, I want to understand scientifically why the improvement happened. Sometimes it's obvious like a better phono cart or table or preamp, etc. And I wouldn't be so sure that a simple change in the response curve in the way that an interconnect or speaker cable can affect the curve can be attributed to something less quantifiable and more ethereal or "magic".

In my experience, the alleged "science" behind the amazing things high end cables do to an audio signal cannot be separated from the marketing literature of the manufacturers of those same cables.

 

I would advise you to acquire better front end, amplification and speakers. Set up the room right. Listen for hundreds of hours (from sweet spot) over months and months using the same cheap cables. THEN upgrade to very well established hi-end cables. You will have no doubt at all within moments.

 

I wish there wasn't a difference with cables- it would have saved me a lot of $$$. I wasn't even looking for a difference in cables while doing some recording tests many years ago, but it was clear that certain mic cables I had sounded better than others. I've experimented with guitar cables, power cables, speaker cables, mic cables and interconnects, and they all sound different.

FWIW, in my experience I prefer the Auditorium A23 ICs and I'm going to upgrade my speaker cables to A23 next week.

I don't know how some companies justify the cost of their cables and I can't fathom why Audioquest makes so many varieties but they're all different

 

If I wanted to make cables and stay in business AND sell a bunch of product, I would dump money into R&D, formulate my best shot, and then develop lesser versions in regards to materials and technology and sell those at lower price points. I would also pepper my marketing material with real facts and total BS because most people don’t know the difference and because I wouldn’t want to miss those potential purchasers who didn’t know the difference.

 

Yep, I love the sound of my A23 ICs but I also appreciate the fact that they make just one IC cable and just one speaker cable- that's it- there's no budget version, no super deluxe version, no "I guess this is the most expensive one I can justify version"...

 

Custom production and proprietary materials, like conductive dielectric, do require more bank than hand wound wires made with available materials, not that one or the other is better in your specific situation.

 

Thanks for the advice. Been there, done that. "Different", no doubt. Better? Meh.

Please don't assume I'm advocating for Monoprice or something. I'm only wanting to get at the "science of cable voicing" and how that voicing relates to a subjective perception of higher fidelity.

 

The science, costs, value, etc are interesting. Getting into "perception of higher fidelity" is scary though. While not everyone prefers the same flavor of a given level of fidelity, there are common qualities.

 

I'm not scared

 

Just use your ears.

If you hear differences then buy what sounds best.

If you don't hear differences then buy what costs less.

Doesn't matter what anybody else thinks.

 

Although you are relaying these observations based on the BSO speaker cables, I'm noticing these same things with the Silver Oval interconnects. Basing my observations on years of using a similar (though 3x less expensive) copper/silver XLR cable, and listening to the same music. I only have a few hours on them, but am hearing these same traits in the soundstage and the high frequencies (on familiar recordings)... just not able to write descriptions that eloquently.

I need to become more familiar with how my current setup will sound with time, before I make any more changes, as I'm still breaking in new speakers (maybe 140 hrs) and a dac (maybe 90 hrs). Yet I'm thinking some Analysis speaker cables will be in my future. There does seem to be something to their hollow oval geometry. Just need to choose between copper or silver.

 

Everyone have a great holiday weekend (US Memorial Day). Mine is shaping up.

 

Quick long-term update. I've been living with Analysis Plus throughout and Shunyata's entry level power conditioning, distribution and cords. I also added the SR-Z1 outlet. The results have impressed. I'm pleased to realize that I'm getting closer to allowing my power amp to deliver the best signal to my speakers.

I was motivated, after many weeks of enjoying the upgrades, to reassess my speaker positioning. I'd had a fairly random toe-in going so I re-measured to get them right at the thirds and eliminated the toe in. I was initially very please from a tone perspective but the imagine/soundstage wasn't quite delivering. So I measured twice and realized that one speaker was an inch or so off. Surprisingly, that made a big difference and I've now got that holographic soundstage which extends from behind the speakers to beyond the baffle. Truly fantastic!

 

I told you the Shunyata gear was excellent. Made a nice improvement in my house. One of the best investments I have made in audio.

As for speaker placement, I have noticed my Maggies are affected by even just a quarter inch move.

 

When all known problem areas are addressed, at least to some degree, well, that's when the hi-end experience comes together. If I unplug my line conditioner (Defender), then the result is immediately noticeable. Would I give up on building a music collection without it or would I have a hard time enjoying myself from the sweet spot? No, but since I know how to make that appreciable improvement, then I'm going to do it. Same with speaker position. I can guarantee that my situation there could be improved, but I've got it pretty good. I'd rather not move them a little bit back to where they were since, again, the experience is flat out better now. These things add up.

Vibration control will be next. I'm adding so many CDs that the gear budget isn't there. I'm not complaining!

 

For vibration control, I've had good luck with Nordost Sort Kones and Vibrapod Cones.

 

Don’t sleep on Herbie’s either.

 

Check out isoacoustics stands if you have the space to put them under your speakers... They are amazing used under a sub too.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ISOL8R200Sub

If not I'd look into Herbie's Audio Lab products, For components, the isocup footers have made a nice difference.

 

Have you tried them next to a product that isolates? I recently tried a lot of different footers and found that cones don't really work very well vs an isolation system like Herbie's isocups.

Under my source, the Sony HAP-ZZ1ES, the stock footers sounded better to me than all but the Herbie's isocups. Sony did put a lot of thought into the chassis/footers on that component.

And cones under speakers often do the opposite of what's intended. The stands I linked to are so much better than spikes...

 

Spikes under my turntable was a big mistake. Herbie's Big Fat Dots under the stock feet had a very big effect on tightening the bass.

 

I agree, Herbie's Audio Lab Iso-Cups are wonderful. http://herbiesaudiolab.net/compfeet.htm

On some components (DVR, turntable, TV, Power Plant Premier) I also use the VooDoo Cable Iso-Pod with great success. (The earlier versions, which were more than a third the price of the current ones. . . I may try the current ones one day soon).

I use the Ingress Audio Engineering RollerBlocks under my speakers and really won't listen without them now.
http://www.ingress-engineering.ca/products-and-services.php

 

I use the Sort Kones under my Sony SCD-777ES. I landed on Sort Kones after trying all sorts of devices. As for speakers, I just use the normal Maggie T-bars.

The Sort Kones are an excellent product.