Poll --The Weakest Link, Elvis Costello MIGHTY LIKE A ROSE, Round 8

All Grown Up decided to leave and get it's own place.

Three left.....one more to go.

Discussion question: How do you rank Mighty Like A Rose among the 2nd part of Elvis Costello's catalog (Spike through Wise Up Ghost)?

I decided to put a little spin on the discography question. Some consider Elvis Costello's catalog in 2 phases with the dividing line being Blood & Chocolate and Spike. Since most prefer the earlier mostly Attractions period, it might be more fun to only rank/compare Mighty Like A Rose to all afterwards.

........though if you do like Mighty Like A Rose over any of the earlier albums, mention that too.

4 - All Grown Up
5 - How to Be Dumb
6 - After The Fall
7 - Invasion Hit Parade
T8 - Harpies Bizarre
T8 - Georgie and Her Rival
T10 - Hurry Down Doomsday (The Bugs Are Taking Over)
T10 - Sweet Pear
T12 - Broken
T12 - Playboy to A Man

 

DQ: I'm hit and miss with much of the second half of the catalog--I think I have all of the first half. In looking at the discography on Wikipedia, I haven't heard all of the last four albums--heard part of MOMOFUKU and SECRET, PROFANE--and not a bit of NORTH or JAKE'S PROGRESS and GBH (soundtrack albums, I saw). Of those I heard, I prefer MLAR to THE JULIET LETTERS for sure. Beyond that, I'd be hard pressed to say I liked it better than the others I know.

But frankly, there's not a lot of his career that I'm wild about after BLOOD AND CHOCOLATE, and I can't quite put my finger on why that is. Maybe it's me, and maybe it's him thinking he was a great singer when he is really just an adequate vocalist for his material.

JcS

 

So Like Candy

I'd rank the second half of his career like this:

1.Painted From Memory (with Burt Bacharach)
2.When I Was Cruel
3.Brutal Youth
4.The River In Reverse (with Allen Toussaint)
5.The Delivery Man
6.National Ransom
7.Mighty Like A Rose
8.My Flame Burns Blue (with Metropole Orchestra)
9.For The Stars (with Anne Sofie Von Otter)
10.Spike
11.Secret, Profane & Sugarcane
12.All This Useless Beauty
13.North
14.The Juliet Letters (with Brodsky Quartet)
15.Momofuku
16.Wise Up Ghost (with The Roots)

I think the second half of his career is all over the place. I'd only #1-4 essential, #5-8 I'd call very good, #9-13 below average and #14-16 awful.

 

"Candy" again.

"MLAR" is near the top of Costello's 2nd half career for me. I'm a huge "Juliet Letters" fan and I'd say that's probably my favorite from this period. I really like "Cruel," as well. "Momo" and "Brutal" have their moments that are almost as good as anything he's done, imo. For the most part, though, the "2nd half" of Costello's career, as noted above, is missing "something" that's difficult to articulate. He actually experimented a LOT in the first half in terms of styles and approaches, so I don't really see that as the issue. It's always been hard to pin down what exactly changed.

 

It looks like we'd flip our ratings, since I have two you'd have near the top at the bottom of my list. There are things in the second half, as we are calling it (noting that it would be 25 years since SPIKE, and only 10 from MY AIM IS TRUE to BLOOD AND CHOCOLATE) that I like, and BRUTAL YOUTH has some of them. I'm higher on ALL THIS USELESS BEAUTY than some here, but that may be due to the fact it was the first EC album I bought while it was fresh since GET HAPPY.

And I think I'm glad to see someone else can't articulate what is "wrong" (or less "right) with the last quarter century compared to the first decade.

JcS

 

Wow - love this album so much. I was first turned on to EC with the one-two punch of the amazing Spike and Mighty Like a Rose.

The opening tracks is one of his best songs ever. Loved it for 20 years or however long its been. Grandiose, Beach Boys touches with that powerful EC vibe. What a cut!

"The Other Side of Summer" is an amazing track.

Jeff

 

Yeah, it's interesting how big Costello fans are really all over the map in terms of their favorites or least favorites.

There's another Costello thread I participated in (heck, I may have even started it. I no longer remember) that delves into the nature of what may have changed to make the 2nd "half" of his career oddly less appealing for some reason. I'm sorry I don't remember what thread it was, but it was an interesting discussion and might be worth searching for.

 

First saw Elvis on this tour, with the big beard and all. My mom was a fan and took me along, asked me if I recognized the smell going around the outdoor crowd and seemed satisfied when I feigned innoncence. I see this album as a pair with Spike, very poppy and I had them both on cassette so I always remember them that way. Not my favorite Elvis stuff. Brutal Youth seemed like a big comeback. I think that album kicked off a period where his work sounds more vital than the poppier late 80s stuff. The later albums may tend to drag a bit, but I really enjoy them overall. Momofuku doesn't try to be anything more than a throwback to the dashed off earlier albums and works quite well, smart & hooky rock. Sugarcane goes on a bit too long, might have worked better as a shorter album or as more of a collaboration. National Ransom was quite good even if the title track seemed forced, "Bullets For The Newborn King" makes any proper single disc comp. One difference might be that the later material works better as full albums, lacking those moments of great energy of the big early songs. Or that you really need to be in the mood to listen to some of the 2nd half stuff or it won't work at all.

 

So Like Candy

DQ: I love almost every note and word of every record up through Spike. I like most of Mighty Like a Rose. A few songs on Brutal Youth are good ("You Tripped at Every Step" is a freaking masterpiece.) One or two on Delivery Man. But at that point, I did a thing that's really rare for me with artists whose whole careers I've followed avidly: gave up and stopped really paying attention to what Costello put out after that. I don't know what changed (I'll have to look for that thread), but yeah, it's like he poured out so much brilliance in all those first-half records that he just ran dry? I generally like it or at least appreciate it when a musician changes direction or experiments, and I don't mind someone having mediocre moments, but starting with Brutal Youth, these records were actively unpleasant to listen to, so I quit trying.

I think the issue for me is in the writing, and it's similar to what happened to They Might Be Giants. You have someone incredibly gifted at traditional pop melody and hooks with an infinitely creative supply of those. But they either use them all up or step outside that idiom to essay other kinds of song structures that they simply don't have the knack for. Not everybody can or should be Scott Walker. Still, I do admire Costello and others for moving outside their comfort zones and following their muse even if I don't go along.

 

I am voting So Like Candy off the island. I haven't voted in prior rounds but so think we got down to the right final 3. Honestly, I don't like this disc very much (never Listen to any more) and there is only one standout classic on the album which is still out their to be the sole survivor. We shall see in the next round.

 

I looked for threads with his name only--ten pages worth (some of them WL games), and didn't see anything that leapt out at me as being about the "second half" of his career.

JcS

 

DQ: It's a good album, but nowhere as good as Brutal Youth, Spike or Momofuku.

 

For those considering voting "So Like Candy" off the island.

 

Here was one comment about it (from me) in the Elvis Costello and the Roots announce new album thread:

I think there was another thread, as well, we discussed this topic. I'll look for it.

 

God, I love So Like Candy. I can't imagine anyone hating it. To each his own, I guess.

 

I think I found the other thread; it's the recent tail-end of one about EC reissues: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/elvis-costello-reissue-madness.361738/page-18

And I concur with that thread: whatever happened, you can just barely hear it begin to happen on King of America, and then it becomes incrementally more audible from there through Brutal Youth. For me, 1994/95 is where the wheels really irrevocably came off the wagon.

 

Good discussion.
I did say "part" and "phase"......never "half"

The River In Reverse and When I Was Cruel are my favorite phase 2 albums. Mighty Like A Rose could be 3rd......at least grouped closely with Momofuku, The Delivery Man, and Brutal Youth. Big dropoff for me afterwards.

I also like Mighty Like A Rose more than Punch The Clock and Goodbye Cruel World.

 

I actually find Momofuku to be a great house cleaning or yard work album, which is either praise or some kind of backhanded commentary of his artistic decline. But I think it's a fine album, stylistically similar to Blood & Chocolate. Seems like the same sort of fast songwriting process as the Wendy James demos. And while we're at it I've found Painted From Memory a lot more listenable than I ever thought it would be, kind of ignored for a while because that stuff is really not my bag but it's good work if you can put up with that style.