Beatles - 1961 silent footage from Top Ten Club. Does it exist?

I don't think home movies were uncommon at that time, at least in the US. Both my and my wife's families have film from the early 60s, including several from when my father was stationed in France in 1962.

 

This is 8 months later than the Top Ten Club 61 date but it looks like they are still in their leathers..

 

There is no such film. It was made in February 1962 and is discussed above (and in Lewisohn).

 

The above footage was mis-identified as 1961. There is no 1961 footage.

 

They wore leathers up until the first week of March 1962 and occasionally thereafter. This footage is February 1962.

 

Pete was still with them in that clip right? Guess hes in the dark.

 

Yes. Unfortunately we never see him at all, which is a major bummer.

 

I'm aware the Floral Hall footage was originally misidentified as being from 1961. However that's not what is under discussion.. we're discussing the rumoured Mid - 1961 film from the Top Ten Club in Hamburg, which is rumoured to be in private hands. While it's not been resolved whether this footage actually exists, it's an entirely seperate case from the Floral Hall footage and has never been confused with this AFAIK. I first read about it in Jorg Piper's book http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Beatles-Film-Chronicle-1961/dp/9189136055 where it's listed in addition to and seperately from the Floral Hall footage.

 

Totally OT but Ive been meaning to ask someone from the Liverpool area. What is the accent that the Beatles had/have? Is it considered scouse? Ive listened to some clips of the scouser type accent and it isnt quite "beatles".

 

Source, please. I don't think both Jorg Piper and Erik Krasker can confuse this with very well known 62 footage

 

Yeah, pausing the clip in several places I cant see a sign of even a trapset. Wonder if he was even on stage at this funtion?

Was Stuart not playing with them at this point? I know he died, what, a month later or so?

 

Interestingly, footage description doesn't mention Sutcliffe. He was away on several gigs at Top Ten in 61 but still with them at that point.

 

Please consider it was just 15 years after WW2 and the big cities were still heavily damaged, families had to live in one room, people had other needs than making home movies in those days. The "home movie era" in Germany begann with the upcoming Super 8 Format after the mid 60s.
I think people have a very wrong idea about the Beatles in Hamburg. And the fact, that they met with a group of students from some wealthier background should not lead to the impression, that this was the norm.
The Reeperbahn was a very dark and also criminal world. Especially Tony Sheridan very often got upset about people trying to make it into a "romantic place" when talking about the Beatles. He would tell you quite drastically about the brutality. And that he had never forgotten the sound of "breaking bones".

 

OK, how is then we have Floral Hall 62 footage? 1957 tape of Quarrymen? Please remember, that sailors could be not from Germany but from any other country as well..

 

Liverpool has three distinct accents- what is usually described as 'Scouse' is a sort of fast, nasal Irish version, from the North End of the city. The East side has a more gentle lilt, the South Side an easy-going drawl. The Beatles are mainly South Liverpool-type accents, Ringo has a little more East side. I personally don't think The Beatles could be described as 'speaking Scouse' but they were all from Liverpool and are, as such 'Scousers'. Confusing I know.

 

Stuart did not play with the Beatles much in the second half of 1961 and hardly at all in 1962.

 

It's a rumour- nobody has seen it. Someone confused the movie footage a long time ago before this clip was ever seen. You know how rumours start.

 

It's a classic case of a rumour taking hold early on. Remember there was a rumour that Ob-la-Di, Ob-la-Da recording session footage would be included in Anthology TV series? Was it? Anyone ever seen it? There was random footage of The Beatles in studio 2 but were they recording anything?

 

I generally don't believe in rumours like this, but... This is mentioned at least in 3 sources. Why someone would bother to create the story in the first place?
Anyone know how to contact Mark Lewisohn?

 

I'm not convinced on the evidence that we can say with absolute certainty it's the same footage being misremembered and misassigned (though I'm willing to admit it if it can be proven without doubt) - if it's the same film, where does the longer running time of around 3.00 for the Top Ten film come from? Where are the "Further scenes featuring the audience" in the Floral Hall film? (unless there's a longer 3.00 minute version of the Floral Hall film with the rest of the running time made up of audience members - that would go some way to settling it for me).

 

Thanks! Couldnt find much on it other than general geographical vague reference that there are different accents.

Kind of amazing that in such a small region that many accents exist.

 

Yes, he and I are friends. He didn't find out anything about the film. He doesn't believe it exists.

 

The footage was sold at auction in the 1990s, a 20-something second clip was provided to ITN news and that is what is available on YouTube, doubled in length by editing. They weren't going to provide the full 3 minutes were they? There is only one pre-Ringo film, this one, and Pete isn't seen in it.

 

I can't tell you what it was like in England, I can only tell you what it was like in Germany, which was heavily bombed. And to this very day (!) nearly each day bombs are still found and have to be removed and dismantled.
And once again - the Reeperbahn was not a place where you would go to with a camera - you would have easily been in trouble....
It's very likely that the rumour of the "Hamburg movie" is based on the misidentification of this Floral Hall clip. And those once claiming to own this Hamburg movie now prefer to remain silent instead of admitting their mistake....

 

Thank you very much!