How bad are v-shaped vaulted ceilings for acoustics?

And why is that?

 

Brian, after this video and the one on your Phantom II tonearm, I gotta tell ya something. Your voice is a dead ringer for Jeff Garlin ("Curb Your Enthusiasm")! To me it's uncanny.

Alright, sorry to digress. Happy Saturday night and good luck house hunting!

 

Because windows will pass majority of bass. And rear wall reflections are some of the most damaging. Room will still need treatment though.

 

Ha! Never heard that. Good to know though. I've read that no one hears their voice the way others hear it. Apparently, even if recorded, there's something about the way the human brain interprets hearing its own voice that throws things off.

 

That is very similar to my last house and the speakers were positioned where you suggest.I had no fireplace and timber floor but other than that the two rooms are nearly identical.It was a good sounding room with a range of speakers.Bigger was better though.

 

... That's the very first thing I considered when we were looking, starting with, "Does it have a slab foundation?"

 

Hello Brian . Judging by your video , the room sounded a bit echoey & I imagine that would be down the tiled floor . Did you try clapping your hands in the room? Too springy not good , too dead your system will sound dull. Basic rule of thumb for me is if the human voice sounds good in a room so will a decent hifi system. Btw visually it's a nice place , so maybe a fat rug some rug hangings on the wall & some ikea shelves full of books/CDs/records stuff of equal proportion to the equipment & curtains for the windows even if they are pulled in a little bit are fine . I got to have windows otherwise it would feel oppressive. The ceiling looks fine but you may want to weigh one thing up which is a bit radical but to put your speakers on some heavy duty coffee tables (2 of the same) & raise them. Only try this if feel the ceiling is too high & sonically it sounds not as full as you like . I raised my speakers on coffee tables & it worked wonders for , no room boom & voice projection was highly improved. Good luck to you .

 

Brian, if you guys like the house as a house, buy it. I don't know if you are planning to have a dedicated room, but if so, you may wind up doing some work to get it right and at that point, other than having enough space to build an interior shell, or to construct an addition, I wouldn't make the 'sound' of a room a consideration in buying a house. I'm not trying to sound cavalier- I've had great rooms that I've had to do virtually nothing to, with minimal treatment. The hard part of the equation in my estimation is a room which serves double duty as a living space for the rest of the family; that makes it much more complicated in terms of system lay-out, aesthetics, how much you can let the system 'take over' the room, etc. If you have space for a dedicated room, there's little that a competent contractor and judicious design can't accomplish. PS I'm not real big on heavily treated rooms, I like them to be a little 'alive' and be enjoyable spaces in their own right, beyond the gear.

 

The sonics should be fine but be aware that hot air rises and gets trapped in the vaulted area meaning extra heating capacity is needed in the winter .Also tends to be hotter in the summer without any roof cavity to act as a barrier.
I live in a similar climate here in southern Western Australia and it was an annoyance in my former house.I guess you just have to allow for spending a bit more on air conditioning and heating.The vaulted ceilings do make for nice living spaces though.

 

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Anything that breaks up the reflections from the surfaces is a good thing. If you have hardwood floors you may want and area rug to dampen the room, but you can decide that. You can even roll it up and stand it in a closet if you don't want it there all the time. Tall plants in corners can also help.

You could record some pink or white noise from your stereo with a mic at your seating position and if you know of someone with some recording software with FFT capability you could play it back and see how your room is reacting. NCH WavPad has that ability and is pretty affordable. They have a trial version as well. It can handle 2496 files.

 

Ethan is a fairly respected acoustics expert who also sells acoustic treatments.

http://ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

 

To answer the original question first, it all depends on the height and angle of the ceiling. Big difference between an attic room where the inverted-V comes down to almost floor level, and an inverted-V on top of 15' high walls, for example. As others have suggested, you will have to decide based on how things sound to you.

Judging by the video, that house looks to be up on Grizzly Peak, or one of the streets below it. Since you say that this is the first place you've looked at, I would not be in a rush to buy, unless you are an experienced home buyer and this one ticks all the boxes for you.

Some general advice for you to consider (I'm just throwing things out for you to discuss with your family):

1. Berserkeley is expensive because it has a number of good schools, if your family does not need them consider the adjacent Kensington which still has the views and nice houses, but is somewhat cheaper (this is a Bay Area relative term!! ). Similarly, there are some great areas of the Oakland Hills to consider.
2. consider where you will have to commute to, and how. Traffic along the Bayshore freeway is a mess most of the time. So, if you need to get into SF every day, you will have to contend with that if you choose Berkeley, Kensington, Albany, El Cerrito. Access from Oakland Hills, Montclair, Piedmont is somewhat easier. Things are different if you can use BART.
3. you cannot live in a view!! Golden Gate or similar views are nice to have, but usually come at a $$$ premium. You may be able to get more for your money if you can live with a canyon or Mt. Alamo view! If you are not tied to views of the Bay, you could also consider towns on the other side of the Caldecott (Moraga, Orinda, etc.) which generally means higher temps. and less fog. The commute has just gotten easier there with the new tunnel bore. This all depends on what is important to you.
4. as discussed above, walls of windows, while visually impressive, can be a pain (both for acoustics and fading). We have a number of rooms with floor to ceiling windows, but invested in various blinds for most of them. We use these where we want to control UV but still allow a fair amount of light into the room: http://www.hunterdouglas.com/roller-shades/designer-screen-shades We use honeycomb shades for the TV Room with a solid inner to block as much light as possible: http://www.hunterdouglas.com/honeycomb-shades
5. when shopping, my only stipulation was that I wanted a room for my music, so this has left our sitting room with its wall of windows and views unmolested by audio gear. I also wanted to avoid a totally open floor plan to minimize leakage if my wife was busy somewhere else (watching TV, chatting with her friends, in her office, etc.). So, I ended up using an optional office/extra bedroom as a music room. Something for you to consider. Why have a nice sitting room with great views, and then cover all the windows with Tube Traps, for example!?!
6. try to find a good agent who is familiar with the area(s) you are considering. There are many things to keep on top of: local taxes, schools, location of fault lines, seismic surveys; earthquake-proof retrofits, building codes, etc., etc. Buyers tend to fall in love with the location, layout, view, etc., while the agent should be drilling down on any faults, the value, how much you need to offer, etc.
7. unfortunately, as you mentioned, the market has become very active again, and that means houses closing for substantially over asking (if they have the right location, view, etc.). Again, this is where a good agent can guide you based on your financial situation.
8. if you can, try to make yourself as financially attractive as possible as a buyer (no contingencies, financing in place, etc.), so when you do find the right house you do not miss out.

 

As pointed out by Black Elk the more important issue than the ceiling, tile floor or windows which all can be dealt with is sharing the room and its relationship to the other spaces in the house. Will the wife and you have conflicts over how the room is used? If you are listening late at night will the music find its way to areas of the house that need quiet? Will she want to watch TV in there while you want to listen to music? Do you have or will you have kids in the house who will end up taking over this room? A man cave is the best and when I go shop for a house it will have to have one that meets my musical requirements and will not be a shared space, invites only!

 

Brian, If you like the house, I say go for it! As so many here are saying, the vaulted ceiling is beneficial for the acoustics. I think you'll be very happy!

 

Thanks for the great info!

 

The master bedroom is quite large, so I think she won't mind retreating there if needed. I have a "man cave" now, but she doesn't really like it because I'm in there a lot and there's only one chair.

 

Famous last words!

You're a braver man than me if you plan to go this route.

Everyone's family situation is different. Some partners share one's love of music, some don't. Of those who do, some are not fussy about sound quality, sitting in the sweet-spot, etc. Some people like watching TV, some people like reading, some people like doing crafts, some people like chatting, some people like playing games, etc., etc. It can be tough doing solo pursuits when you live with other people, and a lot depends on what they like to do while you are hunkered down comparing minute pressing differences!

While your partner may not like your man cave, she may love a sitting room with spectacular views! If she is into reading, or art, or playing an instrument, she might quite like to sit and take in the views. So, I think it still makes most sense to find a place with a 'bonus' room that you can use, unless you foresee you and your partner sitting on a sofa in the sitting room listening to music all the time.

 

Err, plants will never do anything at all to break up reflections. Not one iota. Just for the record.

 

Funny at the 3:17 mark (where the music comes) that room sounds just like my laptop speakers (oh wait... never mind).

It looks like the vaulted ceilings are pretty much enclosed and limited to the room itself (that's a good thing). The think the nightmare of vaulted ceiling comes into play when those ceilings open up to open areas on a second floor or an open adjacent room. That's where little sounds (in the source room) are big when carried to adjacent open spaces. You should not be concerned with the room itself (and by the looks of the tour I don't think you have the open room/ 2nd floor issue).

E N J O Y and good luck

 

Women, to the bedroom, me want to listen to tunes! Just kidding. I think a man cave with two chairs is ideal or maybe a sofa.

 

What about a Venus Bass Trap?....

 

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My wife almost never comes in my 14 x 22 mancave not even for watching a movie on my HT. I have a sofa in the middle of the room. She says she doesn't like it as it has no windows, but my office just off it has 2. I have no signs that say "Keep Out", or "Trespassers Will Be Dealt With", so that is her choice. She has her own computer/TV room as well so she doesn't need my room and she is not that into music. MP3s rock her world just fine and she likes her little Altec computer speakers. I even offered to buy her some AudioEngine's, but she declined. How could someone do that? lol What was that saying that men and women come from 2 different planets?

My office is where my main stereo gear is and I have only a Lazy Boy in there. That I get. That room is only 12 x 13 and I stretched fabric across the ceiling tacking it on two opposite walls and mounted a 2 x 4 across the middle to make a "tent ceiling" with a inverted V pitch so I have no ceiling reflections from that smaller room to deal with. The middle is about a foot higher than the ends. I painted the 2 x 4 to match the cloth. Easy to do. Seems effective to me.

 

Jim great ideas there to tame things down. It doesn't take a lot of effort to tame some of the reflections in a room, just a bit of thought. So many are willing to buy the hype about a lot of the manufactured treatments to tame reflections in a room. Most of them I found could be recreated with a small amount of money, a trip to home depot for some small lumber and material, and a staple gun.

I love when people go the DIY route instead of the BUY BUY BUY that gets pushed from forums and magazines.

Kudos to you.

 

I went the DIY route with ceiling treatments in my room......I have a vaulted tray ceiling that produced a good bit of slap echo. I measured the interior of the tray and it was big enough to fit 5 panels (one is offset a little to avoid covering up a smoke detector). I purchased poplar wood at Home Depot and cut it to make frames for Owens Corning fiberboards. I trip to Joann's fabrics got me some nice burgundy/maroon fabric. I used 4 threaded rods per panel that got them about 8 inches off the ceiling. They work perfectly. The most difficult task was hanging them, it took about a 16 foot ladder and 3 people, but it was well worth it.

 

These look good. My guy at GIK thinks I'll need about 12 panels to treat the ceiling. I have 8 now, but the color is probably not quite right for that ceiling.

If the v-shaped ceilings are supposed to be good, why would I want to put panels up? Just to control reflections?