Anti-Skating with VPI Scout...

Hello All,

Trying to perform some final TT tweaks on my Scout 1.1 with a Dynavector 10x5 and having all sorts of challenges passing the anti-skating (AS) test tracks on my Hi-Fi News Test LP Directors Cut (latest version HFN002).

Now, I know trying to pass all the tracks is virtually impossible and I am not shooting for that, but I would hope to at least be able to pass the first couple of tracks (on side 1) of which I can with the first one at +12db, but not the second track which I believe is set to +14db and I am hearing a little buzzing on the right channel. I am using all the three rings on the AS device and have the AS wire in the middle groove supported by two rubber rings to hold in place either side.

I have also been advised to throw away the test LP as they are not a good test case as they get you to over compensate, and to simply use the dead-wax method of which I have also read some contradicting opinions on. I have also read people simply listen to what is best and stick to that, but I am not sure what I am supposed to be listening out for, and would rather use either a tool or something that visually tells me that I am there or at least, very close - which I think I am...

So I am at a real loss here as to how to get the AS nicely and accurately setup on my turntable to finally get playing my vinyl and stop worrying about all these setup challenges! #-o

Would appreciate any thoughts and advice on this as I am sure there are a lot of you who have gone through this same frustrating exercise and eventually found a good solution or compromise...

Thanks in advance!

Cheers,
Vin.

 

Mono LP, set mode switch to stereo increase AS until distortion occurs in left channel then decrease AS in tiny increments until distortion disappears in left channel. You may have to decrease downforce a small amount to get enough pull into the right channel if you cant produce distortion in left channel at first with AS set to max.

 

Thanks for the tip - now if one doesn't have a Mono LP, any other ideas/thoughts...?

 

I've went round and round with the anti skate on the VPI, and I haven't noticed any difference with the mechanism, or without it. The adjustments that made the most difference for me were VTF, and then azimuth. And the azimuth made a huge difference. I would get slight buzzing in a channel on hot passages every so often, and then I finally decided to really focus on azimuth, as I had only set it to where the cartridge was perpendicular to the record. This wasn't correct, as after various adjustments and summing an out of phase sine wave to mono I finally dialed it in.

So I guess I'm asking if you are sure that the azimuth is correct? The buzzing I had went away once I dialed it in.

 

Thanks for the feedback- I will be playing with this again over the weekend once I get some free time and will report back. I thought the buzzing was to do with the anti-skate as I am using the tracks specific to that, but this is interesting and good to know.

I just recently picked up a Fozgometer so this will certainly help confirm that for me too. I guess it would make sense as the azimuth should be corrected prior to setting anti-skate correct? In fact, what is the correct order of items for turntable setup? I would think:

TT leveling
Cartridge Setup/Alignment
VTA
VTF
Azimuth
Anti-Skate

Thoughts...?

 

If you are lucky and the diamond is aligned with the generator coils or magnets you can dial azimuth in this way. But if you have an advanced stylus shape small changes in azimuth can affect your tracking ability due to the drag on the groove walls. These diamonds are set by hand and can be out by a couple of degrees. If you have a conical or .7mil by whatever it's not a big deal but with a "replicant" shape all bets are off as to the fozgometer reading giving good tracking.

 

I'd add a double check of cart setup/alignment after the VTA/VTF steps

 

Actually, I have a replicant tip.

 

Also you're probably right. To get this thing to track correctly and sound right is difficult. Small movements make a big difference, though I haven't noticed much change with the VTA.

 

I assume a Dynavector 10x5 is not of the replicant variety? How can I tell?

Thanks for all the feedback all....

 

No, it isn't. It's an elliptical stylus (see specifications), not quite as critical - but still, the better the setup, the better it will sound.

 

Cool - thanks!

Yes, I will be using the Fozgometer to get the azimuth dialed in and will also double check alignment with the Conrad arc protractor which people love and looks great for alignment. I was going to get the Ken Willis Accutrak protractor but decided against it as the free Conrad one should serve me just as well for a one time use...

 

Sounds good. I use Conrad's arc protractor too, adjusted the inner and outer radii to get a standard Baerwald (Löfgren B?) alignment with 66.0 and 120.9 null points.

 

Cool - I think if you want Baerwald alignment, you should be using the Lofgren A setting.

 

Yup, was just about to edit. It's been a couple years here.

 

One more question on protractors - how critical is the fact that when making a protractor out of paper or thicker photo paper in my case, that you are not aligning at the same height of an LP? Does this matter much?

 

Put an album under the protractor - free and easy solution.

 

Please let us know how well the Fozgometer worked. I think I may need to check mine. I leveled it to the platter but think I need to get it right. I also used the VPI protractor and as far as I can tell it is good.

 

The thought had crossed my mind about using an LP after I sent the posting! Great minds as they say...

Yes, will report back on the Fozgometer - but by all accounts, it's one of the best things to use for Azimuth which is why I bit the bullet.

The protractor I am going to use is the free Conrad one, although I believe my cartridge was setup using the VPI jig by my dealer. VPI has you putting their Jig right onto the platter for setup - there is some thickness to the jig, but not the amount of an LP - I wonder why they don't suggest putting their jig onto an LP??

 

I've been through the gamut of various accessories to align cartridges on VPIs. The VPI does an OK job, but not the most accurate. Harry designed his jig to track more of the interior groves of the record, similar but not the same as Stevenson method. I've personally thought the Baerwald method sounds the best to me. This method looks to keep the lowest avg. tracking error across the entire surface of the record, not just the interior.

I've used the VPI jig (ok), the Mint LP (much better but a real pain to use), and the Feickert (best of the three). The last is not cheap but it will last you a lifetime.

Every time I hear or read about VPI cartridge alignment my right eye starts to twitch a bit though The good part is I can just about align a cartridge on a VPI table (JMW arm) in my sleep. The other part of stock VPI arm alignment with providing the little bar of metal to put on the headshell to eyeball if it is level is just hokey. Nothing should be just eyeballed in cartridge or turntable setup.

 

As an after thought, make sure your VTF is set right before using a digital scale before bringing the Fozo out for use.

 

It's metal for one, which would probably bring up the issue of scratching.

I've never liked how it's adjustable in length too, just introduces the change of more setup error if you don't have the screws tight, not quite tight enough from S2P, etc. It's ok, but flaws IMHO.

 

The item below should be a part of anyone's vinyl setup tools. Expensive, but worth it for initial azimuth and VTA settings.

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-2667-millennium-acrylic-vta-block.aspx

I had a Fozgometer for a while, using it on both unipivot and non-unipivot arms. I think it's not worth it for unipivots, particularly the VPI arrangement, as due to the influence of the tonearm wires azimuth changes across the record; what's right at the start of an LP ands up being not so right at the end. I find Harry's method--get a counter-intuitive and set by ear--just as effective and a lot cheaper.

John K.

 

I've looked at that VTA block for some time, but $85 for a piece of plastic just gets me. I'd have picked it up a long time ago if it was more reasonably priced, like $40.

I think you might have hit the nail on the head too with azimuth changes on JMW arms due to the wire. How much that change is when you have it aligned though using a fozgometer for at least the initial part of the record to the end I have not been able personally to hear.

 

Hello All,
Well, I finally got around to using my Fozgometer this weekend and would you know it, the meter is not moving for me!! - I get the respective lights show up for either the left/right channel, but not getting any readings on the meter, so now waiting to hear back from my dealer and also have an e-mail out to Musical Surroundings. Its never easy!!!! - I honestly don't believe the wire has much of an effect on my particular setup on my latest edition VPI Scout 1.1, but if I can get it dialed in with the test tracks using the Foz, then I am happy with that level of accuracy...

As for VTA, I too was looking at the Millennium Acrylic block as it seems to be the only tool in town to be able to set this aspect of the turntable. Are there any other tools that one can use? I know people suggest listening, but I would prefer a tool by sight if one is available - of course, the Millennium block works well if you have a tonearm that has a line marking horizontally, what about the other 95% of tonearms which don't?!