Beatles mono VINYL box set (Part #15)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by hodgo, Sep 29, 2014.

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  1. C6H12O6

    C6H12O6 Senior Member

    Location:
    My lab
    Interesting but brief interview about the mono vinyl set….

    SEAN MAGEE, ABBEY ROAD MASTERING ENGINEER
    Please Please Me we had to make a new master for. The tape itself wasn’t shedding but the glue that holds the edits together had seeped through various layers of the tape. The tape was playing and it left a sticky sludge on the playback head which isn’t very good. We thought rather than have it do that, we thought we’ll make a new one.

    Read more at http://www.uncut.co.uk/node/20865#S5RUUtlf6FjqFDd9.99
     
  2. gamma goochee

    gamma goochee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Apologies if this has already been addressed, but does anyone know exactly which brand of resealable outer sleeves are used in the mono box? I seem to be in the minority, but I actually like them very much. In fact, I'd like to get my hands on some. Anyone know where they sourced these from?
     
  3. ThePoodleBites

    ThePoodleBites Forum Blogger

    Thanks. Guy from the record store said something similar. I dunno. Can you really say you didn't like having that lower number?
     
  4. fogalu

    fogalu There is only one Beethoven

    Location:
    Killarney, Ireland
    Was this new master achieved by copying the tape from one machine to another with analogue connections?

    If so, that would make "Please Please Me" another generation down from the original. Has anybody noticed this? Or is it noticeable on today's equipment?
     
  5. Al_D

    Al_D Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    What happened here is that they went back to the original component pieces of the artwork, or at least that's what I can deduce from studying an original Sgt. Pepper and original Rubber Soul against the new ones. All the text has been recreated in software. This means that in some cases there are some significant differences, and this includes the typo on the back of MMT.

    I don't know if anybody else noticed (a 15 part thread = I'm not going to dig in and find out as I'd be here all week / next fortnight) but Sgt. Pepper new mono version uses the wrong font for the word 'PARLOPHONE' in the Parlophone logo on the back cover. Also, the lyrics aren't in quite the same alignment with the picture of the band. It's all very close to the original, but not quite. The Yellow / Black labels are a bit off too in some ways, fonts again. e.g the font used on the catalog number should only be used with the serif font track titles, not the sans-serif ones - IF the copy of RS I have here that has both label variants is anything to go buy. Interesting side-fact - the font is known today by the name 'Grotesque No.9' (No.9... No.9... No.9...)

    Another more obvious thing is if you look at the back of Rubber Soul, the photographs are better resolution than the original Garrod and Lofthouse prints. The new one though, has been re-created in such a way that it's now too perfect. The photographs should be dotty, not smooth. The text should have a hand made look to it and the ink should bleed a little.

    There's nothing quite like oldskool artwork creation and printing techniques and their imperfections, this modern method makes each copy nearly identical when they should all be a bit wobbly and uniquely so for each copy made. That would just be all too expensive to recreate authentically these days I guess. Personally, I would have done everything in my power to recreate that 60s print feel, but these aren't originals and we should not expect them to be perfectly like originals.

    This post is not intended to be a moan, just observation.
     
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  6. ThePoodleBites

    ThePoodleBites Forum Blogger

    As I said - After spending over $350, I really don't feel the solution should be "just buy" another one. I just spent a ton of money on this set, and if the expected solution is to "just buy a new pepper," I feel that I'd rather spend that money on a company that actually cares about their customers' satisfaction post-purchase. Just saying. Yeah, I love the sound. I listened to Sgt Pepper, it is easily the best version of this album I've ever heard. EASILY. But that doesn't give an excuse for poor service.

    As marcb stated, that's unlikely to be the case.

    I'm a collector. I like records pressed correctly. I have records to look at them, listen to them, and enjoy them, not marvel at how imperfect pressing plants are.
    If you (or anyone else) is interested in purchasing it for a "small fortune," send me a PM. I will be more than happy to discuss business with you.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2014
  7. ThePoodleBites

    ThePoodleBites Forum Blogger

    I appreciate your observation and notes. I also noted that a lot of the text seemed imperfect to the originals (although VERY close). However, I can't say that this is a dis-improvement - all of the sleeves, to me at least, look very professional and authentic. The Sgt Pepper insert, though slightly off-color to the original one, is beautifully done. Everything looks like they did their best to make the best-looking product they could. It's not perfect to the originals, but I guess it's important to remember that the originals themselves were in many ways imperfect ...
     
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  8. Dee Zee

    Dee Zee Once Upon a Dream

    I really liked the improved photos on the back of Rubber Soul. Makes the album look classy. Like a special edition which it is..
     
    nikh33 likes this.
  9. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    Sure. And I just kept the lower number and returned the bad LP in the higher number jacket. Problem solved. But, make no mistake, it's just a lower number. And I have reservations or concerns about one of the two LPs being from a much higher numbered set. The numbers on the album almost certainly have no relation to when the vinyl itself was pressed.

    If it had been an album other than the White Album, it would have made no difference to me whatsoever which jacket I kept.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2014
  10. Dinstun

    Dinstun Forum Resident

    Location:
    Middle Tennessee
    Yes, it's an analog tape dub. I don't think anyone has noticed any extra tape hiss or degradation.

    More about this from http://www.superdeluxeedition.com/n...ng-team-answer-your-vinyl-mono-box-questions/
    Magical Mystery Tour and Mono Masters are also dubs:
     
  11. fogalu

    fogalu There is only one Beethoven

    Location:
    Killarney, Ireland
    That's interesting. It's still a copy, and analogue to analogue should show a difference. I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned it. (Then again, maybe somebody did because this thread is endless!)

    I'm not sure, but I think Steve Hoffman said somewhere that the stereo tape of PPM (the album) was the main recording and that the mono tape was one step down from this - and this was back in 1963.

    I wonder if the remastering team could have used the original analogue stereo tape, which is probably in better condition, and copied it in mono, as was done back in the day?

    (I don't have any of the new vinyl records, by the way. I'm just fascinated by the whole recording history of the Beatles.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2014
  12. dustybooks

    dustybooks rabbit advocate

    Location:
    Wilmington, NC
    I got my box yesterday. It is one heavy mother****er. Totally in love; it completely took over my evening just unpacking it! I only listened to Please Please Me and the first side of Mono Masters so far. It sounds absolutely as glorious as advertised. Assuming they're all this good, it complements my BC13 quite perfectly. My set arrived in perfect condition, no warps, nothing -- and for what I paid ($233 through the CCM sale), it was an absolute steal. Almost can't believe that I own it! And I actually think I may be done buying Beatles LPs now.

    Only sour notes: man, I miss Lewisohn; respect to Kevin Howlett, but his liner notes just don't do it for me. I just really don't care how many stuffy film soundtracks were in the charts at the same time as Beatles for Sale. A matter of taste, I'm sure. (I also vastly preferred Andrew Doe to David Leaf on the Beach Boys stuff.) It was cool to see the EPs in such detail though, as I've never owned them in any format. And my only other objections are stuff other people have brought up: the jackets are annoying, and those White Album discs are snug inside that jacket. I'm debating whether to do something about those two problems.

    There has been a lot of talk about the PPM master tape degradation -- or rather, the degradation of the glue. I may be naive but it sure doesn't sound audible to me. It's the best that album's ever sounded to me. (And I like the stereo mix.)
     
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  13. daveidmarx

    daveidmarx Forem Residunt

    Location:
    Astoria, NY USA
    Agreed. I remember there was a lot of trepidation before the box was released that PPM would sound different due to the fact that it was one generation removed (though there wasn't a comparable fear surrounding MMT or Mono Masters, IIRC). Once the box was released however, all those fears went by the wayside as folks were able to hear how fantastic everything sounded, including PPM.
     
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  14. DavidFell

    DavidFell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    I thought about doing that when I replaced the White Album from my box; but then I decided that I'd rather my collection track the real history of how I bought it; so new number above 9045000 it is!
     
  15. alsqpk

    alsqpk Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Interestingly, in this intereview, Magee suggests that AAA stereo vinyl remasters won't/can't happen, at least not with the same practice as these 2014 monos of following the old mastering notes:

    "To recreate the stereo masters from the tapes just wouldn’t have been possible. It’s a real-time process. With the stereos there was different EQ on the left side to the right side. Different EQ in the intro…you couldn’t physically adjust that while the tapes were going. With the monos there was very little done, so you could put them on, hit play and cut without too much interference from the engineer."
     
  16. Onder

    Onder Senior Member

    This is exactly how the stereo's need to be done!!!
    We don't need different EQ during the intro or pop's and drop outs removed.

    Ondra
     
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  17. I would take a really good tape transfer to make new masters of the stereos so they can apply all the treatments. They have already proven that they can do a good analog to analog transfer with PPM mono.
     
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  18. crispi

    crispi Vinyl Archaeologist

    Location:
    Berlin
    You are absolutely right about Rubber Soul. It's something I noticed right away. The back cover photos should have been dotty old newspaper style. (They got that right on the mono CD.) It looks like they used a de-grain filter and some Photoshop luma de-noising to get rid of the printing dots. Then they applied heavy-handed digital sharpening to make up for the denoising. That is the most obviously digitally looking of all of the new covers (along with the back cover of MMT which also had some degraining applied).

    Maybe in 2054 we will get all-analogue covers! :winkgrin:
     
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  19. crispi

    crispi Vinyl Archaeologist

    Location:
    Berlin
    Don't underestimate The Forum. :cool: Not only was this mentioned before, but at least one entire part of this thread were comments on this issue. It's only a testament to the quality of this reissue that as soon as these came out and we actually listened to them, nobody talked about it anymore – because frankly, it doesn't really seem to matter. These sound so good that not even the most hardcore audiophile on this forum are complaining.

    And, as mentioned before upthread, MMT and Mono Masters are also from copies. And I'll be darned if Mono Masters is not (for me) the aural highlight of this box set.
     
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  20. Oyster Black Pearl

    Oyster Black Pearl Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Hi Folks,

    After following this thread for more weeks than I can care to mention, I thought I'd offer-up my experiences with the box. I pre-ordered form Amazon UK in July, but due to being on holiday I didn't get home until some 2 weeks after the box arrived on day of release. It took me a while to work my way through the LP's, indeed past the 30 day return/exchange period with Amazon, you can guess what's coming next?

    I'd noticed a few LP's were warped and needed the spindle holes enlarging, but it didn't affect the music, so wasn't too bothered, I was otherwise well-impressed with the quality of the pressings. By the time I reached MMT it was apparent they were becoming increasingly warped, with it affecting playback of the first couple of tracks of either side of MMT and the White album. After a call to Amazon they agreed to replace the box within 24 hours - was well pleased with the service as I was past the 30 days.

    So, the new box arrives, oddly with a Universal Music Italy sticker on the external sleeve. Warping was not an issue, but this time WTB has crackling surface noise throughout both sides, You Really Got A Hold On Me jumps, and BFS has a vinyl 'bubble' over the lead-in, which I didn't notice - causing the arm to fly across the whole side! Straight back on the phone to Amazon, who apologised and agreed to send another box, with a guarantee I wouldn't have a problem with it. I asked how they knew the box would be ok, the chap said with confidence it just would be.

    So, the 3rd box arrives (again Italian?), and it's clear the outer packaging has been opened. Hard to tell if the box itself had been opened (for inspection?), but this time everything is perfect (thank God!).

    I suppose I was unlucky, but Amazon were superb, I suspect they must be aware of the issues I raised? All the way through I've been amazed by the pressings, and I've ended-up with a great set. One thing I noticed but haven't seen a comment on, is a momentary loss of top-end (specifically hi-hats) during You Really Got A Hold On Me. I thought I had another dodgy pressing, but pulled out my UK mono original of WTB and sure enough it's there too. Odd I didn't spot it before, but there you go. Similarly my mind was put at ease regarding my 1968 mono Help!, as when I bought it I thought I had a dodgy pressing due to it being so flat, but (as noted by many here) it seems it's just the way it is.

    A quick web search for 'warped Beatles mono box' and I ended up here, what a great place!

    Cheers,

    OBP
     
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  21. fogalu

    fogalu There is only one Beethoven

    Location:
    Killarney, Ireland
    I knew it must have been discussed somewhere!
    Without going to any great trouble, could anyone direct me to that discussion? I shudder at the thought of searching through this 15 part thread......:)
     
  22. tim185

    tim185 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    Unless the intro for example was worked on ad infinitum, so there was excessive generation loss on that part. The EQ choices werent necessarily stylistic decisions, but were to maintain high end as the tape shed its oxide.
     
  23. imarcq

    imarcq Men are from Mars, I'm from Bromley...

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Welcome to the home of shipping updates, vinyl woes and loudness wars! Enjoy! ;)
     
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  24. dustybooks

    dustybooks rabbit advocate

    Location:
    Wilmington, NC
    With the Beatles is currently spinning -- more quietly than I'd like, don't want to bother the neighbors! (Good heavens, I can't wait to move into a house next year.) I tend to think I'm pretty easy to please vinyl-wise -- imperfections are part of the game for me -- but so far this set really puts a lot of other reissued vinyl I've heard to shame in terms of care and authenticity. I almost lost it when "Please Mr. Postman" came on just now -- I know that recording back to front in stereo and mono, and I heard stuff I'd never noticed before. So far these are... something else; when I heard a tiny, tiny bit of sibilance on Paul's voice in "Till There Was You" I was almost relieved... the way Linus is relieved when he finds out Miss Othmar chews on her pencils. "She's human!" Because really, this is the first time I've felt that a Beatles release project to appear in my lifetime (I'm 30) matched the quality control and attention to detail truly befitting them.

    And superficially, I gotta tell you, I never thought I'd see a yellow and black Parlophone label spinning on the turntable that resides in my actual home! It was kind of a thrill.

    As an aside, this is really the peak of the Beatles as a band for me. Crank it up and it is genuine punk rock. So much energy. By coincidence somebody donated a CD of Love to my work today and I took it in the car with me for a longer than usual commute (I'd only heard it once, back in '07 or so) and while it's an interesting and charming enough project for what it is, I can't help chuckling at how hard I find it to reconcile its image of the Beatles -- the love-loving magical cultural institutional voices of a generation or whatever -- with the Beatles who I think of as my favorite band: exuberant and tricky and alive. I love all the stuff but these early albums, these are where it's at.
     
  25. crispi

    crispi Vinyl Archaeologist

    Location:
    Berlin
    "All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain."
    ;)
     
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