Upgrade for Technics SL-1200 MK2

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by grooveme, Oct 21, 2014.

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  1. 2xUeL

    2xUeL Forum Philosopher

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    Don't forget the stylus light for cueing in dark settings a la niteclubs...
     
  2. quadjoe

    quadjoe Senior Member

    The SL-1200 was originally manufactured as an audiophile turntable by Technics in 1972. That well pre-dates the DJ era. DJs did discover that the Technics tables could take the abuse that they gave, and it quickly became a favorite. The heavy-duty construction was to help control resonance, and the DD motor was intentionally robust to ensure speed accuracy. It was and is quite a piece of engineering. Here's a link to a Wiki article that gives more information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technics_SL-1200
     
  3. John76

    John76 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midwest
    The Technics SL-1200 mk2 was a later version of the original SL-1200 which engineers modified to more fit the needs of DJ's in night clubs.
     
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  4. thommo

    thommo Senior Member

    Location:
    London, England
    What's the "initial one"? It might be a cart that could go very well on the 1200 and/or be transformed by a suitable stylus upgrade.

    Some regular/familiar examples:

    If it's a Shure, there's probably a Jico SAS for that model.

    If it's an Ortofon Concorde, a Stylus 30 or 40 would be a plug and play upgrade.

    Let us know the identity of the incumbent, as it may change some suggestions
     
  5. Pythonman

    Pythonman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Funny, I had an sl1200 mkII for a number of years and i never could get rid of the hashy sound no matter which cartridges I used. Absolutely worst sounding table ever. No imaging to speak of, poor separation. I had heard much better from other tables and was terribly disappointed with the sl1200. So finally in 1993 I replaced it with the Rega Planar 2 on a recommendation of an audio advisor salesman and it was a significant upgrade sonically. It also ran fast (do al Regas run fast?) which I am not a fan of.
     
  6. motorcitydave

    motorcitydave Enlightened Rogue In Memoriam

    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Funny, I've had the Sl-1210M5G for a number of years and with the cartridges I use I usally get great sound. Not the best sounding table ever, but far from the worst. Pretty good imaging actually. I have heard better, but they are in believe it or not, the $5k to $6k range. I finally heard a Rega at local dealer back in June and it was good, but it didn't make me wanna replace the Technics. And the Technics has good pitch and speed stability.
     
  7. John76

    John76 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midwest
    To be fair and if you were serious, you would need to compare the two side by side, ideally with the same cartridge.
     
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  8. narkspud

    narkspud Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tustin, CA, USA
    I'd rather have poor imaging. A turntable has two basic jobs: Hold the cartridge, and spin the record at the right speed. If a Rega can only do one of those things, then the heck with it.
     
  9. Pythonman

    Pythonman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    A valid point to which I agree wholeheartedly. It may be that the Technics table I owned had a defective arm. I've often contemplated that's why I could never get satisfactory results from it yet others swear by them. To illustrate, a friend has a less expensive Technics table, a 1400 or 1700 (I forget exactly but it's an auto return table I think) and I once installed for him my low mileage Sumiko Blue Point II cartridge which tracked very poorly in my Rega for some reason. Anyhow I had a bit of a problem installing it in his Technics table because the arm was too short for me to use my GeoDisc so I had to resort to an SME cardboard alignment guage instead and I'll be darn if that cartridge didn't track perfectly and quietly with no mistracking of any sort. I had a lower end Grado at the time I had my 1200mkII which wouldn't track at all in that table which, when I installed in a Pioneer PL530 arm, tracked and played beautifully. I attributed it to a great arm on the Pioneer with the odd outrigger hanging of the side of the arm near the pivot. My current table, a Sony PS-X6 has a similar outrigger device and it too tracks perfectly with no hash or sibilance nor mistracking of any sort with either a Denon DL160 or my vintage Shure M91ed. Alas, the Sony's also got quartz locked speed. It's their X-Tal system and it's not only stable, there's absolutely no sense of hunting and pecking going on with the DC motor and the Sony table has the timing and pacing thing going on through the roof. So now I'm ruined forever probably against a table that either runs fast or isn't as solidly anchored timing wise!
     
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  10. Wngnt90

    Wngnt90 Forum Resident

    I run a vintage Shure V15III on my 1200mk2 with a Jico SAS stylus. I experience no sibilance nor any harshness. It produces excellent imaging and and overall sound quality. I'm quite impressed with the performance of this cart especially being nearly 38 years old.
     
  11. John76

    John76 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midwest
    I'm not too comfortable with folks grouping all Rega turntables as running fast based on the needle drops of my Rega Planar 2. The table was purchased used a year or two ago and is of late 1980 or early 90's vintage. It was used briefly by my daughter and then put into storage. I cleaned out the bearing and replaced the oil when I first got it. I wasn't aware it was running fast until I recorded these needle drops. I've since been told by someone familiar with the turntable that I may have not added enough oil to the bearing well and that could be the reason it is running approximately 1.45% fast. Next time I bring out the turntable for use I'll try adding additional oil to the bearing and see if that does the trick.
     
  12. Pythonman

    Pythonman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Seems like I've read printed reviews of Rega P3s, P3-24s and RP8s where even the ones that could be connected to Rega's TT-PSU power supply ran a bit fast. This is thought to be a reason behind Rega's "excitement" or livelyness which they do indeed have. IDK, all I know for sure is I had my Planar 2 from new in 1993 until a year ago when I gave it away to a good friend and it never slowed down to correct speed. It was quite stable in that regard and only ran a bit fast but on some cuts it was noticeable. Others I've asked have had better luck with correct speed in Rega's. I'd seriously like to give a Rega TT another chance. There's just too many things they do right, even on their basic models. Always liked Rega and I am currently breaking in a new Rega Brio-r which replaces a vintage McIntosh amp/tuner-preamp in my system and the Brio-r is breathtakingly awesome!!
     
  13. motorcitydave

    motorcitydave Enlightened Rogue In Memoriam

    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    No argument here. I agree. However, I felt the Rega lacked bass and overall punch and dynamics.
     
  14. googlymoogly

    googlymoogly Forum Resident

    The Technics once represented a valid upscale starting point for a deck; by that, I mean you could buy them pretty inexpensively and mod them as you went along, if you chose. The rising prices after it was discontinued have affected this. In its standard form, the Techie has many attractive features that starter turntables don't: rock solid speed accuracy and stability, ease of use, a decent tonearm, and so on. I've had mine for over 10 years, bought it cheaply as NOS, and it has performed without the slightest hiccup, and I've upgraded things slowly. The thing is, the more upwardly-modified the Technics is, the more one realizes that it is essentially a highly-competent, neutral performer: address the limitations of the bearing and the tonearm, damp the platter, and the turntable is a very solid, reliable, neutral platform for showing in a good light a quality tonearm and cartridge - with the benefit of the speed stability and accuracy that the direct drive system offers.

    I'm not surprised that many people prefer the Rega sound; I like it too. Even when it doesn't run particularly fast, it does sound livelier, more involving in some ways. That is a direct outgrowth of the Rega design and material construction. In other words, it represents a particular point of view in terms of playback, a coloration as some would say, and I agree with people (like our host) who say that we listeners like a divergence from strict accuracy more than we may want to admit. I don't mind "colorations" much at all, and often outright like them; the fact that there are so many different sonic flavors of analogue reproduction indicates that we don't all have the same starting point for what constitutes pleasing sound.
     
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  15. Luca

    Luca Wolf under sheep clothing

    Location:
    Torino, Italy
    I love my stock 1210 MK2, a very reliable turntable. Sound quality is great if your unit is maintained correctly (especially regarding arm bearings). I use it with three cartridges: Audio Technica AT-440 MLa, Ortofon 2M Black and Nagaoka MP-500. They all sound great. The AT is the cheapest of the three, but if you look around you can get good bargains for the other two too (don't pay the silly list prices!): I got my Ortofon at 380 EUR from Amazon.fr, and my Nagaoka for 430 EUR (shipping included, custom taxes not included since they vary from country to country) from Kazu here on the forums. I think that the AT-150MLx would even be better than the 440. The Ortofon is the easier to install and setup, though.

    If I really had to find one area of improvement on the Technics, it is the power supply: I can definitely hear how bringing it out of the table and replacing it with an external one would lower the noise floor.
     
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  16. magoo6

    magoo6 Forum Resident

    Simplest effective mod is to replace the stock feet, Isone's would be one good option. Whatever cart you decide on, if you're using the stock arm, get the Technics Overhang gauge (KAB or ebay), it makes the world of difference to the sound if you have the cart where Technics intended it to be, and it costs about a fiver iirc.

    There's a UK forum *The art of sound* where a lot of enthusiastic technics users can be found, I learned a lot there.
     
  17. Luca

    Luca Wolf under sheep clothing

    Location:
    Torino, Italy
    Agree. I used to mess with protractors of every kind. Then I got the simple Technics gauge. Cartridge straight in the shell, stylus point at exactly 52 mm. And it works. No IGD at ALL.
     
  18. missan

    missan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Stockholm
    It has been mentioned but I like to emphasize the improvements that one it getting with a fluid damper on the original arm. If one really is liking a more neutral, more correct sound.
     
  19. 56GoldTop

    56GoldTop Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nowhere, Ok
    This. ^^ I was around (albeit quite young) when the 1200MK2 came on the market. Turntablism and DJing as we know it today didn't exist in popular culture. The closest thing there was, was the weekend block party basement guy with two turntables trying to keep the music going continuosly, maybe very archaic beat matching by a select handful of folks. Chances are he didn't have two 1200s, spending most of the money on the mirrored wall and keeping the bar stocked. This would have been a non-starter for Technics. It's more likely that no one in Japan even knew this was a gleem in anyone's eye. In 1979, neither Yo MTV Raps, the Hip Hop scene or MTV itself existed. Disco was an issue; but, as was mentioned, DJ's adopted it and not all at once. It was common to see other turntables in DJ booths, not only older MK1s but also SL-1500MK2s (ca. 1977-78) and their armless counterparts (SL-150MK2) with heavier arms and turntables not by Technics at all, for many years after the release of the 1200MK2. The SL-1200MK2 just won out over all the others. If it was really necessary to categorize such an icon and enduring piece, I'd say it's lineage is more (radio) broadcast than DJ and even that would be ignoring that Technics was clearly and purposely in the home hi-fi market then... and now, apparently.

    As an aside, consider too, that Technics also offered an optional SME armboard for many tables release prior to the 1200MK2. The SL-120MK2, the armless 1200MK2, had this optional armboard, as well. Most likely coupling was an SME 3009; another obvious nod to a home audiophile turntable. No one I've ever heard of, then or now, bought two SL-120MK2s and two SME 3009s, took them to the club and started scratchin'... ...anti-skate weight flyin' all around... :)

    The SL-1200MK2, as many as there are in the wild, remains a rarity. There aren't too many other tables that can sit confidently in an audiophile setting (especially with mods) and take the sheer abuse of today's turntablists. An SP-10MK2 could, older Garrard's could, a Goldmund could; but, at their current cost and weight a DJ/turntablist would be certifiably nuts............ Can you imagine someone spilling a beer on your pair of Goldmunds!?!?!? :laugh:
     
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  20. Wngnt90

    Wngnt90 Forum Resident

    I use the Technics overhang guage as well but I also use the single screw older style headshell that prevents any sideways misalignment. Easy to set up and no IGD at all.
     
  21. Bold Soul

    Bold Soul Forum Resident

    Im new around here but i wanted to chime in on this subject. I just recently upgraded to the Shure M97xE on my SL-1200 after using DJ carts for years and years and I'm really delighted and amazed but it. Its the single best most affordable upgrade you can do to your turntable and the change will leave you feeling like you got a new set of ears.
     
  22. 2xUeL

    2xUeL Forum Philosopher

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    I looked carefully at the improvements between the mk1 and the mk2 by referencing both manuals online and it seems to me that they must have had (club) DJs in mind when they made the mk2, and as you said, not hip hop DJs though, disco DJs by default. And I agree: the mk2 wasn't the staple of hip hop culture that it is today back in 1979. In fact, of all the pictures and videos I've seen of hip hop DJs in New York in the 70s, I don't think I have ever seen a DJ rocking mk2s.
     
  23. 56GoldTop

    56GoldTop Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nowhere, Ok
    It would be interesting to speak to the design team to know exactly what they were thinking. A lot of the improvements are what I would call "across the board". They make sense for anyone using the table: broadcasters (who wanted an all-in-one table, less expensive than an SP-10MK2, with easy pitch control whereby they could fit a longer song into a shorter time slot), discotheques (who wanted to see what they were cueing in low light) and home users (who got tired of footfalls causing the tonearm to jump or their 12" house rockers from inducing feedback). It's amazingly holistic thinking on their part, whereas many other manufactures were still aiming certain products for certain niches. It was once a crazy idea to have a Gates CB-500 in the home (I would love one, personally). Likewise, not sure anyone considered a Sondek for radio stations or clubs; maybe the did. :)
     
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  24. googlymoogly

    googlymoogly Forum Resident

    For what it was going for in the latter days of its manufacture, the 1200/1210 was something of a no-brainer. For what the Technics cost then, a vinyl newbie would get something far more durable, easy-to-use and precise than many of the starter lines of other manufacturers. Want to play 45s? One button allows speed changes accurately and almost instantly. Need to speed up the playback pitch? A slider allows that. The overhang guide with the Technics headshell made for pretty easy cartridge setup, and the VTA and antiskating adjustments were fairly straightforward. The thing came with a full range of tools and guides to put it all together, and it could play for years without a glitch. If you needed parts for it, there were plenty around.
     
  25. BayouTiger

    BayouTiger Forum Resident

    FWIW, my RP3 and TTPSU were sold when I got my Scout, but I chose to hang on to my mint MkII as I love most everything about it. At some point the Scout will be sold, but I don't see me giving up my trusty Technics any time soon.
     
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