Cables, cables, cables...any tips? In the market (maybe)

I don't want to write a lot in case this thread is deleted. At the end of the day it is the loudspeaker reacting to very minor differences in speaker wiring resistance combined with the damping factor of the amp used. This can cause the complex and reactive crossover and the motion in and out of the loudspeaker's woofers to move and sound slightly different, ie freq response is slightly changed now (will you notice, I don't know, many times I don't). If an appropriate low resistance speaker wire is used for the typical run of 10 – 20’ this will allow the flow of electrons pulled by the speaker to be controlled properly based on it's design and make it perform most accurately*. If higher resistance speaker wire is used it will create the effect of a lessened damping factor presented to the speakers, the speaker will have a tendency to now present different electrical and mechanical resonances. Might be good or bad depending on your taste and what type of amp (ss vs tube, diff in damping factor) you are using and even perhaps your room accoustics. A pleasing tonal balance to me might be nails on the chalk board to someone else.

It's actually pretty basic electrical science 101 but when you combine it with human hearing, recalling events and strong feelings towards this product or that it gets out of control. Some people will actually want to get into the weeds on this, while others that just like music will not worry about it and select the right gauge for the job and be done with it for good. Again I personally would spend more time worrying about the speakers first then trying to fix problems you hear with poorly designed speakers through an endless sea of wires on the market, that does not sound like fun to me. At the end of the day they just pressurize air molecules it's not magic. The typical consumer can't be bothered with all this, they have other things to do, so the market does not have any incentive to really provide much more info.





*this is a very subjective viewpoint and will be diff from person to person hence all the useless fighting. but oddly enough what most competent speaker designers recommend.

 

I was unaware and I'll never mention it again. But all it does is underscore how 100% ojectively correct this issue that I am, which cerainly makes me feel great.

 

You can look through my posting history to see ample helpings of skepticism on a variety of topics, including cables (mostly digital though).

Higher end gear typically have more sensitivity in the inputs are more likely to react when changing resistance, capacitance, and inductance of the interconnects. So I think it's pretty much academic that "cables sound different" to some with certain hearing abilities and certain gear.

A recent example in this very thread: Blue Jeans LC1 RCA interconnects. These are low capacitance cables and that by itself may/will alter the sound on some systems. Personally, I use short ones for phono interconnects where low capacitance is desired. And in that application, I think they're better than more expensive, higher capacitance cables. Of course others may disagree.

Lastly, I gave up trying to be "correct" on this forum some time ago. OCD and testosterone is a dangerous mixture.

 

Yeah, I think it's pretty well understood that low capacitance cables CAN provide a sonic difference as a phono interconnect, because higher capacitance can change MM cartridge response.

The Blue Jeans LC1 is awesome as a phono interconnect - at 12.2 pF/ft it's great for keeping the overall capacitance low and was helpful loading my AT150MLX to where AT says the cartridge likes it (100 – 200 pF TOTAL.)

 

Hi rob303, as I've said in previous cable threads no speaker cable has impressed me more than my current Talk Cable 3. Don't know if this just happens to be a great match for my particular system, but I would nevertheless recommend you give it a listen.

 

Must say I really don’t get the concept of power leads influencing sound in their own right, as is sometimes portrayed. (I read a review of one somewhere ‘giving the violin player more elbow room in which to move his bow’ – WTF?).

Surely they can only influence the performance of the piece of equipment to which they’re supplying power, at either optimal or sub-optimal levels?

ie any differences you’re hearing are within are only ever within the performance parameters of the piece of equipment itself.

Let’s say a petrol station is stocked up with dirty polluted fuel. There are three petrol pumps on the forecourt of varying in quality. One puts the dirty fuel straight in to the car: the engine performs poorly. One pump is somehow defective and adds its own gunk in to the car also: it performs even worse. The third pump cleans and filters the fuel: the car’s engine performs much more smoothly and with more power. ‘Pump three is designed to increase your car’s power and make its engine rev more smoothly’. No, it isn’t.

Maybe not the best analogy, but you get that point, and that’s how I see it...

(and if you were going to take it further you could say the fuel quality between areas and stations varies, as do different cars’ ability to filter and combust the fuel...)

 

Cables belong to the Parkinson´s law of a bicycle shed.
But as for cable parameters besides C, R and I, there are two more parameters; DF and DA, which might be more important.

 

I just think your cables should be at the same level as your equipment....$1000 dollar cables connecting $500 components seems ridiculous to me...I've got nice mid-fi equipment and BJ's work great for me...yes, they don't bend but they are well shielded and constructed..

 

What's DF and DA?

 

No worries, good stuff. I hope you like them!

 

Dissipation Factor and Dielectric Absorbtion.

 

Through experience, I have come to find these rules of thumb of what "you should spend" on X and Y are really not correct or helpful at the end of the day. Fancy cables can in fact improve the sound of budget gear so up to a point I think having expensive cable on budget gear is a good investment. At some point though you are spending enough money to buy better components and that becomes the way to go.

My concern here is that all the BJ cable believers likely don't know what they are missing with higher quality, better sounding cables like Kimber, Black Cat, Moon Audio, and other better brands. I'd hate for a SHTV member with a mid-priced system to leave with the impression that once they have a set of BJ cables then they are done on cable sound quality. Nothing could be further from the truth.

To end on a positive note, the silver lining here is that really good cable will often highlight how surprisingly good mid-priced modern gear can be.

 

but couldn't a higher quality cable magnify some unwanted aspects of lower quality equipment...unshielded cables for one...

 

Yes, that is also a possibility. More resolution will highlight weaknesses. However that is sort of a benefit as it would make it more clear how to improve the sound of the system, no?

 

yes, then your wife goes crazy because every time she walks by there is a different component sitting in the rack....

 

I haven't read past page 1 but I just wanted to say this is NOT true for all cable manufacturers.

There are some whose goal is to provide cables that alter the signal as little as possible. The fact is, it cost more money to build a cable that does nothing than is voiced a certain way.

I believe cables should do as little as possible, that way you are not purchasing components that compensate for your cables. Also, cables that are voiced to sound a certain way always make compromises to achieve whatever tone sound they are going for, cables that do nothing let through much more detail.

This also goes for AC power, without good AC power you will look for components and cables that smooth out the harsh sound bad AC power produces.

The fact is, without neutral cables and good AC power your system is truly compromised and can't perform near it's potential.

 

Way too complicated and completely unnecessary IMO.

 

Do they specifically indicate this includes tonearm wiring and ICs? I recently emailed Peter Ledermann of Soundsmith about this and their capacitance spec is in addition to the capacitance of the tonearm wire and IC cabling.

 

Having never heard two different sets of IC's or speaker cables that sound identical I went with Grover's original Silver for both and they still remain the best sounding in my system.

To the OP. The biggest revelation, much to my astonishment, was when I started to play with power cords. My thoughts at the time were "really, how much better can it be already having good quality IC's and speaker cables?" I plugged in these Blacksand The Statement One and Silver Reference cords and it was a moment. JMHE

 

Good for you! you must have a life!

 

Thank you for this. I just learned today that you have actual experience in the design and manufacture of cables so I think this insight is quite valuable.

 

I wouldn't be too concerned. I'd imagine most people into high end audio have experimented with cables at some point and reached their own conclusions one way or the other. It's not as if cables are a small niche that is easy to overlook.

 

If you want to try a really neutral cable I'd look for UPOCC silver, while not inexpensive an interconnect made with this conductor will allow you to hear much more detail while affecting the signal as little as possible. It will highlight exactly how much a regular copper interconnect adds it's own tone to the signal, while smoothing over a ton of detail. Copper is a very colored conductor, UPOCC copper much less so, but compared to UPOCC silver most other conductors have serious flaws.

 

Pick out three or four brands/models you think might work, by used from a reputable seller (ebay or wherever), Listen until your hearts content. After deciding on which you prefer, you can resell the losers.

The biggest problem with this method is you just may end up with a closet full of cables as sometimes it's hard to part with them. Ask me how I know this.

I love cable threads.

 

If you are all ears . Use them. Go to a shop borrow some cable , interconnect, speaker or mains cable , leave a deposit . Listen to your system , install , make a cup of tea & go back , judge for your self

A/ Differene & I like it a lot Buy
B/ Difference & I don't like it . Don't buy
C/ Subtle difference . Your call
D/ Big Difference & you like it a lot. Keep them
E/ No difference . Dont buy. Try another.
F / No difference . Don't buy & don't try anything else again. Type comments in Audiophile forum.