Dealing with bad sellers on eBay : Crooks, those selling counterfeits, etc.

I posted this in another thread about someone getting scammed on eBay, but I thought it would be good to have a distinct thread about these issues, since they repeat so often...

How not to get ripped off on eBay as buyer:

1) If you buy something on eBay, expect you will have to pay return shipping if there's a problem--no matter what the problem is. A good seller should pay return shipping if it's their fault, but a bad seller almost never will. But you should expect to have to pay return shipping. If you aren't willing to take that risk, don't buy.

2) If you have a problem with a seller, do not--ever, under any circumstances, and I don't care what your excuse is--mention the word feedback in ANY discussion with the seller. Ever. Stop. Do not even try to explain yourself. Do. Not. Use. That. Word. Or any expression or term that suggests anything about feedback, even if you do not use that word. Ever ever ever. If you do, then a smart crook will immediately hit you with the term "feedback extortion" which will work against you in multiple ways. First, it might make get adjudication in your favor harder/impossible. Second, it may allow the seller to get any negative feedback removed. Just say no to mentioning ANYTHING about feedback. At all.

2a) In all communication with the seller, stay calm and stick to the facts. Do not swear. Do not threaten. Maintain composure. Remember that this is stage one. Stage two, if necessary, is to get eBay involved. And if eBay gets involved, any threats will work against you. Still ONLY to the facts. Stay calm. Open a case with eBay the moment you perceive the seller is stalling with respect to making good on the sale. eBay forces you to wait a certain amount of time for the seller to respond, so this starts the clock ticking.

2b) Do NOT EVER correspond with the seller off line. All communication should be within the eBay system. Ignore any requests to communicate by phone, or via email (outside of eBay). You want every communication documented.

3) If a seller ever ships a counterfeit item, you have a moral obligation to the eBay community to leave negative feedback. If you don't, they will do it again and again. These sellers always have some excuse "I didn't know" "never happened before" "I am so sorry". Too bad. You as seller are responsible for knowing your product. And 99.99% of the time, they do. They know it's counterfeit. If you don't leave feedback, they'll do it again. Ignore their pleading. Also ignore whatever good feelings you suddenly have when they tell you "Oh, so sorry, you can keep the item and I'll refund immediately." That approach is your greatest guarantee that they knew they sent you a counterfeit in the first place.

3a) Same thing for sellers who did not stand behind a product that was faulty for any reason. If it's a matter of minor graduations of grading and the seller agreed to take the item back and pay return shipping, then, no, do not leave negative feedback. If the seller did not deliver what they promised and made you jump through hoops (beyond returning the item at their expense), leave negative feedback so the next person doesn't have to deal with them as well.

4) When you leave feedback, stick to the facts. Do not call the person a crook. Do not use swear words. If you don't stick to the facts, the crooks can get the feedback removed. Ignore your impulse to scream in your feedback. And do not mention anything positive in your feedback that might dissipate the point. In other words, if they sent you a counterfeit, you caught them, and they refunded your money promptly, do not mention they refunded your money promptly. Because the only reason they did that is you caught them. All the other suckers who didn't know got nothing.

Feedback example (good): Seller shipped me a counterfeit item. Buyer beware.
Feedback example (bad): This seller is a crook. They are shipping counterfeits and lying about it.

5) When eBay requires an item to be returned, all you need to do is ship with online tracking. When the item is shown as delivered, they are satisfied.

 

With all due respect, if ANY buyer threatens me with negative feedback because an issue (that has yet to be adjudicated) isn't resolved instantly to his liking, then that is the very definition of extortion, and in no way does it make me a "smart crook" for taking the appropriate actions upon it, as in reporting it to eBay. There are "crook" buyers just like there are "crook" sellers...since Ebay uses feedback left for me as a seller in determining my status as a seller in regards to discounts, fees, and ratings, the threat of negative feedback effects my bottom line. While I work very hard to make each sale a good one, sometimes a buyers expectations are at a ridiculous level, and in this fast food society we live in, they want it "their way" every single time, without question. I block buyers who are difficult to work with, who have extreme demands and who are just plain goofy (like the guy who asked me to SMELL the lot of used CDs I was selling and to tell him what they smelled like, or the guy who demanded a full refund because I sealed the bubble mailer with extra tape(one piece across the flap) which made it difficult for him to open it). I leave appropriate feedback for every purchase and sale.

 

You're not keeping up. eBay/Paypal rules are changing in the next month and the seller will hereafter be responsible for return shipping costs if the item is paid for with Paypal. Enjoy the smaller selection of items to choose from as straws break camel's backs across the land.

I ignore the long-useless eBay feedback system and have never felt a "moral obligation" to leave feedback, good or bad, in any instance.

Your bullet point #2b is correct and good advice.

 

And don't forget the new "relisting" rule which counts against your total number of free listings per month. So if you list it today for free, if it doesn't sell and it automatically relists, it counts against your next batch of free listings or incurs a listing fee for relisting. Once again, eBay rapes the sellers to maximize their own profit margins..

 

My points were made from the perspective of the buyer, and obviously of an honest buyer.

Sure, there are all kinds out there. I've sold on eBay since '97. I may not have seen it all, but I have seen a lot of BS over the years as both buyer and seller.

But all the rules I mentioned apply to any honest buyer dealing with a seller.

As someone else noted, rules are changing that may require you as a seller to accept returns and pay for the returns. As with many eBay policies, the devil will be in the details, but it appears on the face of things that a user can claim "not as described" and automatically get return postage. Whether that's how it actually works remains to be seen.

 

Yes, but the point I was making is that going by your rules, automatically assuming a seller is "crooked" because he claims feedback extortion is unfair. You can't do that, no matter how honest you are, because frankly, dishonest people rarely see themselves as dishonest, but merely victims. Feedback extortion is not reserved for the crooked, but for those who perceive themselves as victims. It's the same as assuming the buyer is crooked because he threatens negative feedback- he may not be crooked but unhappy.

 

Thanks for this. I've seen the thread before but I just decided to click on it and re-acquaint myself with it.

I'm not sure but I MIGHT have an issue with a seller. I bought a guitar yesterday, paid with PayPal, and received a note from the seller later thanking me and he promised to ship today. I received a UPS tracking number today via e-mail (one of those 3rd party ship-notification programs), and about 45 minutes later the same program notified me that the shipment was cancelled.

I sent him communication through eBay yesterday with a question about one of the guitar's features so I could prepare something once I received it: no answer.
And I sent him a polite message also though eBay tonight to ask about the shipment/cancellation e-mail. So far it's been only about an hour: no answer...yet.

Beginning to get suspicious..............

 

It could be anything. The fact that he actually canceled the shipment wouldn't raise red flags/alarms by itself. He might have printed the wrong amount of postage.

Or...and I would not be at all surprised at this: He didn't realize that UPS charges by DIMENSIONAL weight. That means that no matter what the guitar weighs, you get hit with a hefty shipping bill as if it weighed a lot more. If he's not a professional seller, he might have known this. If he goes down to UPS with a 12 pound sticker on the box, it's going nowhere. Surprise!

Last I checked, you could still ship guitars via USPS without paying the dimensional weight surcharge. Not sure if that's still true.

 

What I would like to add is: check well for feedback and the pictures. For instance, I was bidding on a Leitz lens. The seller states it as an elmarit 135mm 2.8 lens. Viewing the pictures, one shows a different lens: an APO telyt, but for the rest identical to the others. The APO lens is of very high quality and much more expensive. The seller thinks that you, as a buyer, think that he doesn't know he is selling an APO telyt lens. And is thus ready to offer more. When I read the negative feedback of this seller, called asso_11 (he already admits his anti-social behavior in hit account name), like: Kein Kontakt, lange Lieferzeit, total verdreckte Ware, !Vorsicht Schwindler Finger weg! Extrem geschönte Bilder gezielte falsche Info!, you know adding this pic was done on purpose. So long for asso_11

 

My only negative feedback since 1997 fell under your #2 guideline. I was the seller, and the buyer blatantly used feedback distortion in her threat, lied and exaggerated in her negative that she left me, and do you know what the customer service rep told me? "That's not considered feedback distortion, and as far as the negative feedback goes, we cannot remove it because that would violate her rights under freedom of speech"...."she has a right to her opinion"
That one lousy lying feedback hung there for a year. As a Buyer, she did EVERYTHING, I repeat, EVERYTHING that you said not to do, and eBay let her get away with it. The item was a factory sealed shm cd from Japan, I relisted it a couple months later, and it sold to a very satisfied buyer. Oh, and one more thing, she had it in her possession for 21 days before she decided she wanted to return it and Ebay thought that was "okay" too.