Santana: Caravanserai-----wow!!!!

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by ZappaSG, Feb 14, 2006.

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  1. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

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    right here
    That's the point. Santana was a band, not some guitar player named "Carlos" and the whole concert was just musicians wankering, no vocals, no great percussion, no nothing. Just a bunch of glorified elevator music.
    And, if Carlos Santana had quit but the band went on, it wouldn't have mattered, because the main members would still have been there. The album they did under the name "Abraxas Pool" is fantastic. It sounds much like the early stuff.
    From what I have heard it was typical of their concerts at that point.
    I have got to admit I like the stuff he did with Buddy Miles after Santana broke up, but then again I like Buddy Miles with just about anybody.
    But Santana the band and Santana the guitar player are two entirely different things.
    Kind of like Alice Cooper the band and Alice Cooper the singer.
    Back to the original point, Caravasanserai was just something I didn't care for. A friend of mine handed me an 8 track of it when it first came out, and I have since had it on vinyl and I just never cared for it. I normally like jazz oriented and new age/ ambient oriented music, I just didn't like that.
    I might have a vinyl quad of it here, I have some Santana the band quad stuff and I think I have a Santana solo vinyl in quad.
    One of them I have in quad is a silver and metalic blue jacked.
     
  2. Blue Cactus

    Blue Cactus Forum Resident

    Location:
    Illinois
    The Mo-Fi SACD slaughters it.
     
  3. old school

    old school Senior Member

    How is this possible " But Santana the band and Santana the guitar player are two entirely different things "
    What are you talking about have you lost your mind? There is no Santana without Carlos!
    " That's the point. Santana was a band, not some guitar player named "Carlos" and the whole concert was just musicians wankering, no vocals, no great percussion, no nothing. Just a bunch of glorified elevator music." You lost me but I know something is wrong with you!
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2014
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  4. Bill Mac

    Bill Mac Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Do you mean that Carlos Santana wasn't playing and it was only his band playing? If so I can understand how the performance wasn't very good.

    Bill
     
  5. PNeski@aol.com

    [email protected] Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    Caravasanserai is really not Santana number 1 or 2 Band anyway its a mix with studio guys who were never in any road band ,and is more of a mix of Fusion and Hard rock than something like welcome ,it also had a lot of input from
    Mike Its much better than that live Buddy Miles lp which is a solo Santana lp (w/ Buddy)
     
  6. old school

    old school Senior Member

    He does not mean that at all ( see above) if you can figure out what he means let me know. Even if Carlos was not there Greg Rolie was a excellent singer and organ player Santana had one of the best drummers and percussion players around. So it would never sound like elevator music regardless!
     
  7. samurai

    samurai Step right up! See the glory, of the royal scam.

    Location:
    MINNESOTA
    Is this the one with crickets in the beginning?
    It used to drive my cat crazy.
    I liked it too.
     
  8. janschfan

    janschfan Senior Member

    Location:
    Nashville, Tn. USA
    Wasn't there an incident in the early seventies where the band fired Carlos, and did a few gigs without him? I'm thinking there was a mutiny around the time of the III album, or Caravansarai....Does anybody have any info on that? Thanks in advance!
     
  9. old school

    old school Senior Member

    How could Carlos be fired from the band he formed? However, persistent differences with Carlos Santana and Greg Rolie broke up the original Santana.
     
  10. Muggles

    Muggles Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midwest
    Ask Brian Jones.
     
    Bananas&blow and quicksrt like this.
  11. old school

    old school Senior Member

    That's not a fair comparison. Brian was gone from drugs and withdrew from the band and pretty much didn't see it coming.
    Carlos Santana was taken over by a guru and changed his priorities in life.
     
  12. dylankicks

    dylankicks Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oshkosh, WI
    It's a fantastic album, maybe their best. Up in the top five for sure.
     
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  13. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

    Location:
    right here
    I read a biography on the band some time back, and I don't specifically remember that, but I do remember that there was turmoil and the other members weren't happy with him. It seems to me it was from the point of view of one of the percussionists. They could have easily played without him, Neal Schon was with them by that time.
     
  14. old school

    old school Senior Member

    That's not true either! What do you do just make stuff up?
     
  15. Thomas Brophy

    Thomas Brophy Forum Resident

    Location:
    ireland
    Coming from a different angle. If Carlos had connected the songs on Caravanserai with some keyboards or percussion or simply left no gaps between them, he could have called it "The Caravanserai Suite" and called it a "concept album". It would have worked and flowed a lot better than "A Passion Play" by Jethro Tull. Just a thought that came into my head while listening to Caravanserai on vinyl recently. Also the sleeve is a favourite of mine.
     
  16. Rachael Bee

    Rachael Bee Miembra muy loca

    I could care less about the sleeve. Caravanseri has sonic phonics.... ;)
     
  17. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    Fall 1971 they played two gigs without Carlos. (A Santana reference site claims they played a month or so without him but I think this is incorrect.) A recording has surfaced of one of them and when Schon plays "Black Magic Woman" it's easy to hear the difference.
     
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  18. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

    Location:
    right here
    I can imagine it would be a difference, I bet Mr Schon can tear it up on BMW. If it is anything like his early work with Journey I bet it is amazing.
    Have you heard the Abraxas Pool album? I think it might be a bit hard to find. I fortunately found a copy of it at a garage sale for way cheap once, didn't even know it existed.
    It is a great album, sounds just like the original Santana ( which of course it is ) .
    The only thing about it I don't like is that Neal Schon is playing on it more like he does now than how he did early on with Journey, his wankering is a bit over the top at times.
    But even with that, it is still a great album, and exactly like what you would expect Santana to sound like with more modern technology and better production.
     
  19. abor1g

    abor1g Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gwada
    fully agreeing with the idea it is one of the very best record i own AND i have heard ever ....
    i bought it in 72 and stays definitely in my very favorite.
    it is a big break with the 3 first records they did. Santana and Abraxas are huge as well but more "latino rock"
    i cannot tell u how many times i heard Caravanserai ..... :love:
     
  20. abor1g

    abor1g Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gwada
    i'll try it with my 2 lady cats ;)
     
  21. janschfan

    janschfan Senior Member

    Location:
    Nashville, Tn. USA
    Thank you, rockledge and pbuzby. I knew we weren't just "making stuff up"..........appreciate the info!
     
  22. bcaulf

    bcaulf Forum Resident

    Listening to this album I'm loving it. I loved their first three albums, and being aware that Caravanserai was a huge shift in Santana's sound, I wasn't sure what I would think. Having really enjoyed the first three albums, I decided to go in with an open mind. Lo and behold, I think it's a great album! I really like the instrumental passages, and the songs that do have vocals (Stone Flower and All The Love Of The Universe) are very good. Douglas Rauch and Tom Rutley, new to the band, lay down some impressive bass lines and help to bring the jazz fusion sound into effect, while Carlos Santana and Neal Schon go from tasteful jazz guitar licks to frantic rock solos. Sadly, the albums extreme departure from Santana's commercial sound made it his lowest charting album at the time (though it still reached the top 10) and failed to produce any hit singles, and Santana's huge success would not be revived until 1999. While it may have been "career suicide" it has to be regarded as one of Santana's highest artistic achievements.

    What are your thoughts? Do you like this album?
     
    janschfan, gregorya and Mal like this.
  23. tmwlng

    tmwlng Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denmark
    I think it's a lovely album. The first side especially, very mellow and breezy and "ethereal" if you can call it that. The first three Santana albums are great, but I think this one elevates the whole thing to a new level. The cover art fits the music, I think, the lovely mixtures of teal and sand... It's a very "desert" kind of album. I am really fond of it. Some call it jazz fusion. I don't know about that... Santana always had that jazzy edge to him.

    Short version: I like this album. I would recommend it to a casual fan of Santana immediately after that person has heard the best of what the years 1969-1971 produced. A natural progression.
     
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  24. Freedom Rider

    Freedom Rider Senior Member

    Location:
    Russia
    Magical album! Every Step of the Way is one the best album closers ever.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2015
  25. Tristero

    Tristero In possession of the future tense

    Location:
    MI
    I love it, a great jazz fusion flavored effort, maybe their best. It's the kind of atmospheric album that you can really get lost in after a busy day. The musicianship is fantastic without descending into gratuitous wankery for its own sake.
     
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