Are you NOT bothered by the "Loudness Wars" CD's? Do you listen to music loudly in general?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by thecdguy, Nov 28, 2014.

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  1. thecdguy

    thecdguy Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Philadelphia, Pa.
    I'm asking this because since joining here a few months ago, I see constant references about such CD's and how they're too loud and compressed. I have some of the CD's that have been mentioned in the "Loudness Wars" (and in fact, I'm listening to one as I type this) and I've never really had a problem with any of them. So just to explore the flip side of this issue, do you like any of the CD's in this "war"? Can you tolerate some, but not others? And as far as your listening habits, do you like to listen to your music loud, soft, in-between? Do you listen to most of your music at home on a stereo system, or an iPod with headphones/earbuds? Share your thoughts here.
     
  2. onlyconnect

    onlyconnect The prose and the passion

    Location:
    Winchester, UK
    This question may betray a misunderstanding of the "loudness wars." It is nothing to do with how loud you like your music. It is about excessive audio compression and sometimes clipping to achieve a louder sound overall at the expense of dynamic range. The idea is that your release sounds as loud or louder than other releases *at the same volume settings*. The reason for it is a dread of your release not standing out when played alongside others.

    Ironically, if you like playing music loud, you are usually much better off with recordings that do NOT suffer from the loudness wars, as they sound less fatiguing at high levels.

    Tim
     
  3. Bobby Morrow

    Bobby Morrow Senior Member

    I've had very few instances where I've had a problem with 'loud' CDs. The only one is recent memory where I've thought a disc sounded bad was Paul McCartney's Memory Almost Full. Mostly, I'll listen to CDs over iPods and the like. I don't usually play my music too loud, but I'm sure if I did I'd notice the compression more.

    I also don't generally have an issue with bright CDs. I read reviews on here where someone will say, 'Oh, it's so bright I can't listen to it', and I think, 'Really?!'

    Without turning this into a vinyl bashing post, all I'll say is that I grew up with records and cassettes and any problems CDs might have doesn't come close to the ones I came across with them.
     
  4. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    It's the fatiguing that bothers me the most. A close second is the lack of dynamic range - why are the quiet parts as loud as the whole band playing???

    Some CD's that sound acceptable in the car at a moderate volume or on one of my secondary systems at a low volume are simply not playable on the "main rig" at any volume.

    Very disappointing.
     
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  5. Scott222C

    Scott222C Loner, Rebel & Family Man

    Location:
    here
    I won the loudness war going back to LPs. My secret weapon is called RCM "Record Cleaning Machine"

    Back with those "loud" CDs, yes they were bothersome and distracting from the music. Not in all cases though. I still don't really get the fuss over RHCP "Californication" it was what it was, always sounded like that. But jacking up 60s groups on remastered CDs ? no thanks
     
  6. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    I'd say that, too. :D But look at my system profile, I have horn loaded speakers. Like I said in my previous post, I can play certain CDs on a secondary system but not in the main system.
     
  7. ReggieTheVaper

    ReggieTheVaper Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Discovering bands that exhibit a good dynamic range on their CD's has, without doubt, expanded my musical tastes. These CD's can usually be cranked up and enjoyment is maximized. CD's that are "loud", or compressed to hell, nearly always sound far worse when the volume is cranked up..it appears to make a mockery of the word "loud".

    The "loudness war" will be mocked in years to come...and many popular bands and engineers of today will have to live with their legacy....one thing for sure, I predict major butt-hurt in the future..
     
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  8. C4rl

    C4rl Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Fens
    I voted I dislike them in general. I primarily listen to music on my Hi-Fi system which is where the brick walling really becomes an issue with a lot of Music and CD’s quickly becoming fatiguing to listen to.

    Is suspect a lot of people’s views on the affected Music/CD’s are based upon how you actually listen to them? For instance there are dozens and dozens of CD’s I have bought which I can’t stand to listen to for more that 10-15 minutes on my Hi-fi but I can listen to them in my car, on my PC, as background music whilst on the net or via my portable player.
     
  9. The Entertainer

    The Entertainer Forum Resident

    I like a little bit of compression. The problem is all too often it's way overdone. The most recent example that comes to mind is ZZ Top's La Futura.
     
  10. Frittenköter

    Frittenköter Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    i like my music loud but when a disc is brickwalled, i usually have to listen to it quietly, because that compressed sound is exhausting. no real texture to it.
     
  11. JamesLord

    JamesLord Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I have mixed feelings. I certainly can't agree with some purists on here who seem to think almost all CDs/Downloads these daya are too loud or compressed or describe anything with a dynamic range below 13 as 'unlistenable'. I am not arguing with their opinions (each to their own and all that) but I certainly don't share them.

    Also in some instances, there are artists who use extreme compression in a way that is part of their sound design and music (I am thinking Devin Townsend here) and I enjoy their work.

    However, I have encountered a few that have just made me go 'yuck that sounds awful'. Prime example for me was Rush's Clockwork Angels which I really cant deal with due to compression used in a very unmusical way (IMHO). A real shame because I like the songs!!
     
  12. Jackson

    Jackson Senior Member

    Location:
    MA, USA
    I'm bothered by it, especially in the most extreme cases, but not to the point that i'm gonna blame it on the format.
     
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  13. Daniel Thomas

    Daniel Thomas Forum Resident

    It's the worst thing to ever happen to recorded music. IMO, it is the Loudness Wars, in addition to corporate consolidation and the Telecom Act of '97, that is responsible for wrecking the music industry.

    But on the bright side, hyper-compressed CDs led to the Vinyl Revival. Blessings in disguise.
     
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  14. amoergosum

    amoergosum Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    Here's why [at 4:29] >>>

     
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  15. JLGB

    JLGB Senior Member

    Location:
    D.R.
    I don't worry about sound quality anymore. Just focus on the quality of the music /performance. If it sounds great. Then it is icing on the cake with a cherry on top. Great that we have huge amounts of well recorded music. Gone are the days (pop music) when a new release brought better fidelity than the one before.
     
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  16. bleachershane

    bleachershane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Some of my favourite albums have been permanently ruined by extremely compressed loudness wars mastered releases. It's especially annoying when you can tell the music and even the original recording would've made good use of wide dynamic range... :cussing:
     
  17. bleachershane

    bleachershane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    And just in case anyone says "Get the vinyl" well, in most cases the albums I'm talking about were never released on vinyl and those that were appear to be cut from the bloody over-compressed master!!!
     
  18. Picca

    Picca Forum Resident

    Location:
    Modena, Italy
    When it comes to ipod listening I hate too quiet cds
     
  19. KASHMIR

    KASHMIR Forum Resident

    Location:
    Charleston, SC
    I don't care for it at all.
    It ruins the sound when you want to crank it up.

    An example that is ruined by the loudness wars is John Mellencamp's (greatest hits) Words and Music. It is horrible.

    Great collection of songs but it sux with too much loudness!!!
     
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  20. pool_of_tears

    pool_of_tears Searching For Simplicity

    Location:
    Midwest
    I care about it as I always have, since I came here in 2006 and learned about all of it. It matters to me, but not to others. That's fine. If a remaster sounds like crap, I search for previous editions or perhaps vinyl and do a needledrop. There are always alternatives to $hitty sounding/mastered compact discs. Those alternatives may not be definitive, but they are alternatives nonetheless. And if I can help point others toward better alternatives for an album they like, I will.
     
  21. Scott Davies

    Scott Davies Forum Resident

    There just should be choices out there. Have the destroyed LOUD files used on iTunes and such, make the CD the audiophile's outlet for finding dynamic music. I just got into much of the Split Enz catalog, and found the 2006 remasters among the loudest I've heard. The problem is when a song like 'I Don't Wanna Dance' is so compressed that the bass is totally distorted. I had to revert to an USA A&M download from iTunes to hear the song without it hurting. There's just no excuse for the ongoing destruction of sound.
     
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  22. Scott Davies

    Scott Davies Forum Resident

    And the only time I can revert to vinyl as a dynamic option is when it's old vinyl, since it seems all/most new vinyl is just manufactured from already compressed digital files. I've recently remastered The Boomtown Rats tracks that I like from their debut LP and their last LP from vinyl since those albums had not been released on CD prior to the destroyed remasters in 2005.
     
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  23. Scott Davies

    Scott Davies Forum Resident

    You can always use any of the freeware programs out there to boost the sound as loud as you like before it goes to the iPod. I've read comments like this before but I don't think the rest should have to suffer with audio destruction for the sake of evening out the volume across new artist/release CD's.
     
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  24. Bennyboy

    Bennyboy Forum Resident

    With more and more people listening to portable music devices while out and about, I wonder how music engineering has shifted over the last 20 years in recognition of this, leading to a focus on jacking everything up so it's in your face.

    I can understand why. With environmental noise to compete with - not to mention the devices themselves being volume-capped (something Apple and Samsung do in the EU - not sure about the US) - its not surprising that going big with the BASS and the LOUD has become the norm. I may be wrong, but I would assume music now is mastered and mixed with a view to how it would sound on a smartphone in the real world, rather than via 2 speakers in someone's front room? That, and the diminished attention spans of today's instant culture, means the dynamite blast becomes more important than the slow burn in shifting product.

    As for not enjoying loudly mastered music, or the converse - If you look at this month's remaster of Beefheart's 'Lick My Decals Off Baby' in the Sun Zoom Spark box, its quite an interesting study in contrasts.

    Compared to the original 1989 CD remaster, the Dynamic Range has been reduced on this new one, so:

    1989 R270364 = DR11
    2014 Sun Zoom Spark = DR8

    Listening to the 2 different versions, you definitely have to crank the volume more on the original CD to reach the same level, but more crucially, the new version just doesn't sound as good. It's more fatiguing - thicker on the bottom end and shoutier on the top and compared to the 1989 version, much more congested, less three dimensional and with less breathing space in the music.
     
  25. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    I hate the over compressed sound of a lot of modern recordings -- and I think the excessive use of compression is going on at all levels in the recording chain: not just during mastering but during tracking and mixing too.

    It has nothing to do with how loud one listens to music or even how load the average level of a mastering is, more to do with the lack of dynamic range and the squashing of entire tracks until they look almost like squared off noise waveforms and sound like it -- a grinding, fatiguing experience to listen to at any playback volume level.
     
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