Television: was this band influenced by Grateful Dead?

I don't really hear a specific Grateful Dead homage in any Television songs other than in most general sense of stretching out with a two guitar band. Actually, the 'Marquee Moon' LP reminded me more of 'East/West' Butterfield, Quicksilver and Mad River than The Dead...especially back in 1977. Lloyd is also 150% better player than Weir, so
the Dead comparison doesn't quite make it on a musicianship level either (the other psych bands that I cited each had TWO interesting and distinctive guitarists).
But Verlaine definitely paid tribute to his Bay Area psych jam band influences and usually could be caught quoting something like Quicksilver's 'Fresh Air' in a solo or
sneaking in a Jefferson Airplane riff (listen to the beginning of 'Young Girl Sunday Blues' and then put on 'Red Leaves' from Verlaine's first solo LP...pure Jorma K.).

 

The best album IMO with Liz Fraser (Primitive Painters), Robin Guthrie produced the album but I agree a different wave to Verlaine.

 

I love Felt! Their name comes from the TV song Venus. The part where he says "...how I felt (did you feel low?)". Or however that goes.

 

I hear a lot of Richard Thompson in Tom Verlaine. The opening guitar solo of "Cavalry Cross," for example. What a great band, Television!

 

The story goes that Verlaine went to a Felt gig (which they were very excited about), but he left halfway through. Lawrence was depressed by this and said to Verlaine's publicist the next day, 'I can't believe he just walked out!' The publicist said, 'Listen - at least he walked. The last time I saw him leaving a gig, he was running.'

 

Another similarity between the Dead and Television are the R and B type chord voicings and tightly syncopated interplay.
As far as soloing goes, Verlaine had that harmonic sense of abandoned in his solos like Jerry Garcia......you were never sure if he would be able to resolve the melodic motion of his solos which gave the solos a free jazz feel....not unlike the Dead. Verlaine was able to do that because of Richard Loyds style that was fairly static and tight not unlike Garcia and Weir right?

 

How about the original Neil Young and Crazy Horse lineup with Danny Whitten? I have thought for a few years the way Neil and Danny played together was somewhat like Television after listening to the Filmore East archive release

 

I totally agree. Many similarities between Young and Whitten and Verlaine and Lloyd. Good one.

 

Adventure is a bit underrated. Marquee Moon gets all the love, and rightfully so, but Adventure is a decent follow-up.

 

1. Christgau sez:

"Television didn't last because Verlaine couldn't tolerate junkies--bassist Richard Hell, whose sense of style defined punk with the Heartbreakers and his own Voidoids after Verlaine replaced him with Fred Smith, and then guitarist Richard Lloyd, whose choppy rhythm riffs and poppy solos were the essential foil to Verlaine's hand-looped excursions. These now recall Neil Young and even Jerry Garcia more than nascent new wavers would have dreamed at the time, only Verlaine got an unfashionably mellow sound out of the Jazzcaster and other Fender classics he favored--Young's was rawer, Garcia's cleaner. But with Lloyd countering him, Smith supporting him, and mysteriously obscure drummer Billy Ficca driving him, the band's dynamic tension epitomized nerve-wracking excitement."

http://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/cdrev/televisi-tra.php

2. Verlaine downplays influence of the San Francisco sound, mentioning Quicksilver Messenger Service:

Tod Wizon: I see your music as the link with San Francisco music from the ’60s. (laughter) It’s psychedelic, not in style, but in terms of the music you’ve assimilated.

Tom Verlaine: That’s pretty ironic, because I didn’t like any San Francisco bands when I was growing up. After our first record came out, everybody was saying, “Oh, Quicksilver Messenger Service, Raga Rock . . . .” It’s just the twangy guitars. We sound more like the Ventures, in a psychedelic way.

http://bombmagazine.org/article/1592/television

 

Agree, Verlaine used Jazz influences on some songs (Marquee Moon for instance) the mixolydian scale concept is quite common IMO (Rock and now Jazz).
You have a point, Lloyds' style left space to Verlaine's improvision.

 

I thought more about it and You are correct about the Mixolydian influence being common. I was thinking more in pure terms of a Mixolydian chord progression however, the flatted 7th is the lynchpin for all rock and blues and a lot of jazz.

 

Tanx, but you are right too.

 

Yes!
I agree with this as well and was paging through the thread to see if anyone else mentioned a Neil Young/Crazy Horse vibe. And I'm surprised it took until page 3 to mention.
Television and "Marquee Moon" are much more Neil Young/Crazy Horse than Dead. I remember in a late-'70s interview Verlaine praised Neil Young and then was slagged for being a hippie.

 

Amen!

 

Yes, not sure why I neglected to mention it, but the influence of Neil Young on Verlaine's art -- everything from his guitar tone to his vocal mannerisms to his folky approach to composing downtempo numbers (e.g., "Last Night") owes at least a little to the early Crazy Horse recordings. I would be cautious not to overstate the influence, but at least Tom has acknowledged it (unlike the Dead and Quicksilver, which he has explicitly denied).

 

Does anyone dig Richard Lloyd's Alchemy LP? I bought it on a whim awhile back and think it's pretty good, but definitely no Television.

 

I actually didn't know that.

As an aside, my favorites from Felt are usually Strange Idols Pattern or Forever Breathes the Lonely Word.

The first two albums, though very mellow, also get played a bit when I'm in the right mood. Same thing with Poem of the River.

 

http://www.progressiveears.org/foru...s-Leftoverture?p=339472&viewfull=1#post339472

 

No, it's no Television, but it's a very enjoyable record. Sounds pretty good, too.
At the time, my Television-fan friends and I were somewhat disappointed in it--and Verlaine's first solo album as well--because what we really wanted was a third Television album. But both records are must-haves if you're a fan.

 

This is going to sound out of left field, but does anyone notice some similarities between Be Bop Deluxe and Television? I think a fan of either might enjoy the other group.

 

I love it. It's Richard's big-hearted tribute to 60s teen pop, but with wacky late 70s synth-laden production. The comparisons are weird, but it's kind of like a cross between an updated Big Star and an unpretentious Springsteen.

I actually like Alchemy more than I do any Tom Verlaine solo album

 

not any more and probably less than by a certain French Symbolist Poet. Don't overlook the importance of Verlaine's lyrics (at least to him).

from a purely musical standpoint, maybe the Dead created some kind of general precedent for extended improv., but I would guess the firepower of Verlaine and Lloyd would have taken that hill without 'permission' anyways.

 

I love Lloyd's Alchemy LP. I saw him live on the Alchemy tour, and although a great show, he was so wasted he could barely stand up.

 

Television was the original band that asked the owner of CBGBs if they could play their. Everyone else followed soon after 1974