Power Conditioners

SurgeX. Imo nothing on the market offers all the features in one box, the surge elimination is patented, sonically neutral and does not dump energy to ground. Their customers include NASA, Carnegie Hall, Yankee Stadium...

I have heard SurgeX make a night and day difference in situations where the power was dirty (RMAF) and more subtle improvements in typical situations but you have to remember power conditioning will only make a difference if you actually need it. Surge elimination otoh, offers peace of mind and longer service life for equipment plugged into it.

Balanced power like equitech and BPT may not necessarily offer any surge elimination or emi/rfi filtration and the benefits may also be inaudible.

 

I am probably missing something, but it seems like in principle a power regenerator would be best because it would, I am assuming, just give you clean power. Does technical reality not keep pace?

 

No, it often will not meet the current demands of amplifiers.

 

In other words, the current designs can't crank enough juice for some amplifiers?

 

They often can't deliver it fast enough so dynamics suffer.

 

Thanks. Sounds like this may be a trial and error process.

 

Not necessarily. A power regenerator is in effect a power amplifier with a very controlled output, and with many of the same requirements of a power amplifier, but with the design requirements of needing a very low output impedance in order to meet the current demands of the components they power. This means that one designed for use with a power amp can be very big, very inefficient and very expensive (e.g. early PS Audio designs). They work, but at a cost. More recent PS Audio designs are supposed to be smaller and more efficient, but they aren't any cheaper!

John K.

 

I know my Furman advertisers having a reserve 45 amp upcharge for "demanding times" so in theory, dynamics should not suffer.

 

My 2 cents.

I have an RSA Haley and a PI Audio UberBUSS. Tried both in my main system. After listening to both, it was a pretty easy decision.

The RSA is in my Plasma TV system. Uber is in my 2 channel rig.

 

I don't think any reasonably well engineered piece of audio gear has a power supply that is so deficient that it requires some kind of outboard "conditioner" to work at its best. Power conditioners are redundant devices IMO.

 

For those of you plugging everything into a conditioner or regenerator, try a simple experiment if you can and share your experience. Unplug the amp from the conditioner/regen and plug it straight into the wall (you can leave everything else on the condition/regen for the sake of this experiment). Does it make a difference on your system? In what way?

 

I have tried a few times. For me with my grid/system, it is about consistency. without, at certain times of day, my system can lack dynamics, later in the night, and even in the winter, I see no big change. May be all of the AC units? Also piece of mind. I was playing one day, my system shut down in what seemed like, to me, right before my lights dimmed. Low power can also damage equipment, can it not?

 

Yep, possibly, damage. And your results make sense, i.e. if you are running at night or when there is less demand on the grid, the 'black box' doesn't really do much (other than give you surge protection). I guess I am interested to see if you find it constricts dynamics at those 'good power' times. We obviously get the occasional surge or dip here when it is 100 degrees in NY but I'm not using any kind of protection or conditioning on the hi-fi. I will pull power when there are electrical storms, though. I haven't set up power in Texas yet, and am going to some extremes when I do, given the heat there.

 

The best electrical filters will do in a component's power supply is attenuate noise a certain amount, if the incoming AC has a lot of emi/rfi it will not be attenuated to inaudible levels and will result in a nasty, harsh sound. So in some cases you are correct but in others power conditioning can make a massive difference. One example is Rocky Mt Audio Fest, the power in the hotel during the show is especially bad and I have been in the room when a power conditioner was added and it made a night and day difference, there were 6 people in the room and we were all floored at the difference. In other places I've seen the results be a general relaxation and refinement in the sound of a system, on a good system this is not subtle.

The issue with most conditioners is they have no, or poor (MOV-based) surge protection. Many are just fancy power strips with nothing in the box at all. SurgeX makes the best surge elimination system on the market, while also filtering EMI/RFI, providing inrush current limiting and over/under voltage shutdown. There is really nothing on the audiophile market that beats it's functionality and it never degrades sound quality, even on very high resolution 6-figure systems. IMO, they are a no-brainer in terms of protecting and extending the life of your gear without even considering possible sound quality improvements.

Bill, the SurgeX does not negatively affect the performance of the amps in many systems I've tried it in... There is very little audible difference with just the amp plugged into the wall but the cumulative affect of having the entire system's power filtered is a noticeable improvement, the system sounds more relaxed, refined and quieter. The improvement depends on the noise level of the AC power at the particular location.

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I hate to even go here... but for those interested one of the best things you can do is install a single Furutech GTX rhodium plated receptacle and dedicated 10 gauge line to plug your power distribution box into. The GTX is amazing and a bargain for what it does.

Also, your whole system should be plugged into one receptacle using a power distribution system, preferably filled with more Furutech receptacles. This reduces the chance of noise caused by ground potential differences.

 

I'm generally with you, and I have one of those non-MOV surge protectors- made by the other company, the one in Frenchtown, NJ that I think developed it originally. (Sorry, can't remember the name).
I agree that if the power is nasty, it is going to be an improvement. I have the big Equi-Tech wall cabinet waiting to be installed in Texas; just need to buy a property there and do a build out. Also agree re single line- I have some intercomponent grounding issues that I was finally able to ameliorate, but with horns, it is very obvious when there are different ground potentials. I have experimented with external star grounding of the components (in addition to, not in lieu of, the wall plug) , but haven't made the jump to one of the serious products on that front. Right now, I have multiple dedicated lines, but all that will get revisited once I fully relocate. We are listening to our AC system, right?

 

Exactly... SurgeX makes wall cabinets too, ideally you'd use the SurgeX (or the other brand, Brickwall?) first then feed the filtered power into the BPT. At RMAF the room I tried the SurgeX in (which was modified with upgraded parts) used a Equitech to power the system, but they just have the BP transformers and not necessarily any emi/rfi filtering so the SurgeX made a really huge difference vs the Equitech. Anyway BPTs will lower your noise floor... probably 6-10 dB.

I think, if you setup the ground right in your new house to your system you will see less benefit to the aftermarket grounding systems. Basically, use oversized ground wires, twist the hot and neutral lines of your AC power wire, then wrap the ground wire around it in the opposite direction and run it in plastic conduit instead of using romex. Also, use power cables with heavy gauge ground wires. If you do all that you'll have a very low impedance ground connection and it won't be effected by the hot and neutral in the geometry I described. Also have them install as effective of a single ground rod as they can or if it's existing make sure the connection is as good as possible and maybe upgrade it to a larger gauge. Noise caused by currents flowing in ground wires as a result of potential differences is directly related to the resistance of the ground connection, that's the principle the aftermarket systems use. A mass of copper could provide some kind of electron pool, it might be similar to those loops of wire sold to stick on your negative binding posts just on a much larger scale.

 

My goal is separate building with separate service for the music room. Sharing even a ground with the household appliances sucks. The other brand isn't Brickwall, I think it is ZeroSurge?
I'm in a holding pattern right now til I relocate. I did a pretty simple set up in NY with dedicated lines, plastic conduit (not sure how the ground was wrapped), additional ground rod outside with one of those welded braids, separate subpanel before the main breaker box. I didn't go wild on the outlets at the time- I bought some Cryro'd Hubbells from Albert Porter.
Have had several discussions about the advantages of external star grounding over the years- right now, don't need it, system is extremely quiet with no ancillary stuff whatsoever. I'll drag you into the discussion offline once I'm ready to execute. I figure if lightening strikes, I'm toast anyway. And the big assed tranformer on the E=T should give me a little coverage, but I'll revisit the surge protection issue, not just for the system but for whole house.

 

Well, this is getting really interesting. Right now I am fine if I turn all other electronics off, though that can get a little tiresome if you want to take a break from listening to check, say, a thread on power conditioners. But when I move into a condo, I expect I will need something. Now if I could just get you all on the same page!

 

A separate building?! Yout listening budget is bigger than mine!

 

Sounds like a fun project, good luck with the move!

 

I've used P.I. Audio MiniBUSS & BUSS Stop, both offer terrific bang for the buck. I'm planning on upgrading to an UberBUSS next year.

 

Under ideal conditions, I do find the wall the best for dynamics, just barely though. The bottom is a tad stronger also, in the wee hours and during non summer months. I find I listen less and less in the 1 am and after range though.

 

Ha as I read that my first thought was the large font. Love your initial reply. Thank you. M.

 

All CAPS would go with this nicely

 

Is a dedicated 10 guage line something one can install anywhere, say in a condo?