Whiplash

The thing is, I've seen people play like that because they love music, playing wonderfully with sheer joy in their playing. In the film, his playing seemed to be half masochism.

 

There was a sports movie feel to the movie's structure -- it did make his drumming seem like a purely physical pursuit, with no thought of artistry or expression.

It didn't seem like the way I tend to think of jazz but I don't know anything about that kind of conservatory approach to it. If he'd been trying to get a place in a symphony orchestra it most certainly would have been about intense practice and discipline rather than "just enjoy yourself." You could make exactly the same movie about an abusive violin teacher.

 

Or a film about an astonishingly talented cellist and her sister, like Hilary and Jackie.

 

WHIPLASH (2014)

TOMATOMETER


96%
Average Rating: 8.5/10
Reviews Counted: 176
Fresh: 169
Rotten: 7

 

Interesting that it is getting such overwhelmingly positive reviews.

We went to see it because we really like JK Simmons and music. In this film he played one of the most vicious characters since the Drill Instructor in Full Metal Jacket, but at least that character had a good reason - that he needed to produce Marines who could depend on each other and fight a war. Drummers, on the other hand, rarely have to actually kill anyone.

I'm sure there is a great movie to be made about learning to drum, and have thought so ever since I learned about the so-called "rite of passage" among hand drummers where they drum so hard that muscle tissue breaks down in their hands and they pee blood.

Maybe it's just me, and my innate dislike of bullies, having been the frequent victim of them when I was a kid and teen, and I don't wish to see a bully portrayed as a hero (no matter how it is accomplished.)

 

After seeing this I went looking for comments here (found now, until yesterday), and I also went looking for comments from people on imdb.com

The most interesting thing I read was from a musician who said that it's "impossible" to determine if a drummer is "rushing" or "dragging" in one or two beats... his comment was that that the scene where the bandleader kept repeatedly stopping the drummer (instantly) was ridiculous.

Maybe ridiculous from a productivity standpoint - but I could still see a maniac type person doing it.

The constant comparison I've noticed is with the drill instructor in Full Metal Jacket.

I'd say the music school instructor is more like Bobby Knight (the former college basketball coach).
A guy who could wander quickly from one extreme to another - and clearly knows his stuff in his area of expertise.

The Full Metal Jacket guy didn't seem to have swings in his personality. He was always the same guy and
his insults were almost designed to tempt others into laughing (so they could be further disciplined).

The script is apparently based on the director's experience in a high school (?) music ensemble.

For the sake of argument, I'm willing to suspend belief - and just assume that this strange maniac instructor could exist.

When I was a kid, I played trumpet in a grade school ensemble - and our bandleader had some moments where you clearly
didn't want to be on his bad side... but to his credit, he had this uncanny ability to suddenly drift from an ugly moment to
a light moment. Imagine being yelled at, and then made to laugh in a 60 second interval.

Plus our guy 's ugly moments didn't usually involve thrown objects or incredible insults. He never had to take it that far
to get his message across.

I didn't think it was ridiculous for the instructor to take a chance with his reputation at the end. I would say that point,
he wasn't thinking clearly - and he didn't have much to lose. What I thought was kind of odd was that the drummer
wouldn't be able to hide the problem and play something that would seem to fit with the charts the others were looking at.

I absolutely cringed at the two scenes where the drummer/student started pulling away from his family (at the dinner table) and his
girlfriend (in the diner).

I thought during the finale the drummer took over the ensemble and they were following HIS lead, making the conductor
superfluous. I enjoyed seeing that happen. He deserved to have his reputation further tarnished (if possible).


I also read some comments that ballet instructors are pretty cruel and someone talked about a piano instructor who would
literally smack the hands of a student who was playing something wrong.

 

Is that what you thought they were doing?

 

I did think he should have been able to fake a little better than that, if he was such a great drummer, but Simmons did deliberately choose a piece of music with lots of stops and starts and most importantly, shifting time signatures, which would be harder to play along with if you didn't know it.

 

Yes. This thug was shown to have successfully motivated the student.

 

Like I said earlier, I think it was supposed to be open to debate whether such motivation was necessary or appropriate. I don't think they were celebrating it just because they showed it working.

 

Huh? If they show it working, aren't they saying that it works, by definition? Maybe I'm weird, but whenever anyone has been violent and abusive to me, I either resist, strike back or leave.

 

I saw this with friends yesterday. One of them thought that his tempo was "dragging." She may have a more refined ear than mine, which is admittedly sloppy enough that Fletcher could wring tears from the dry wells of my eyes.

However, the scene struck me as just psychological warfare; I was immediately reminded me of the scene in Cool Hand Luke where, after a failed escape attempt, the field bosses tried to "break him." The particular scene I was reminded of is the one where a boss asks Luke, "what's your dirt doing in Boss Keane's ditch?" then has him dig a hole. Of course, when Luke is nearly finished digging the grave-shaped hole, another Boss asks what Luke's dirt is doing on his yard. Exhausted, he begins to fill the hole. Eventually the first boss asks why he's doing the opposite of his original instruction. Luke's then thrown to the ground, which leads him to a feebly animalistic attempt to attack the guard before he begins digging again while a prisoner played by Harry Dean Stanton sings "Ain't No Grave Gonna Keep My Body Down" with other onlooking prisoners clapping along. That night, when he's nearly done again he's beaten into submission when the scenario is about to replay.

While not remotely a note-for-note equivalent or I'd guess homage, it seemed to me that Fletcher was essentially playing the role of both bosses and his students played the role of the onlooking prisoners, though in their case their silence took the place of the prisoners' spiritual.

Seems to me that the title Whiplash has more to do with that scene and others like it than it does song. A bit on-the-nose, but effective enough; especially for a younger viewer who isn't as familiar with this film's well-worn tropes.



As to the film itself, I found it had lots of merit and was a reasonably good twist on the formulaic coming-of-age tale, even if it's zags came across as obvious attempts to subvert the audience's anticipated zigs rather than truly jazz-like riffs that go beyond "the [musical] charts" of filmed storytelling. I also absolutely loved J.K. Simmons' portrayal throughout.

As a side note, I had a professor in graduate school who did actually have a bit of Fletcher's complex. Unfortunately, neither her published acumen nor her less incisive insults inspired any of her students to artistic heights; rather, it quashed many artistic fires... and also got her fired at the end of the semester.

 

Preferably out of a cannon.

 

Wow!
Saw this with a friend last night and we were blown away.
Excellent film.
That young guy (Miles Teller) is a good actor (he was in a great little indie film called "The Spectacular Now" where he gave a terrific performance with Shailene Woodley)
As for J K Simmons, who could forget him in "OZ"?
He is excellent here (deserving of an Oscar nomination IMO)

If you like Jazz and you like a good drama, don't miss this.

4/5

 

That's the way I saw it.

 

So he was a successful abuser?

 

You just didn't get (or like) this film at all did you?
You wrote that it's not great.
That's not what everyone who saw it last night thought.
It's received overwhelming positive reviews.
You just have a personal issue with it. If you had your way, it wouldn't be the powerful movie it is.
....and, it's just a film. To be enjoyed, not analysed to death.

 

In a way, yes.
It's not the nice guy who always gets the job done.
Didn't you listen to his talk with the young man about Charlie Parker?
It all made sense after that...
Passion will make one do things that are not always politically correct.

 

I got it and I hated it.

Here's the thing; I know literally hundreds of musicians, and quite possibly a hundred drummers, a dozen or more who are pros earning a living drumming. Not one has ever told me a story of being driven to success by a vicious, abusive teacher. Most of them do have stories of particularly beloved teachers who inspired them to success, who believed in their ability to play particularly difficult parts, etc. I also know half a dozen drum teachers, and as far as I can tell, they are all decent human beings.

This movie has the same relationship to music education as hard-core porn has to lovemaking.

 

I respectfully suggest that you're way off base. I respect your opinion, just completely and overwhelmingly disagree with it.

PLEASE DON'T BE DISCOURAGED AWAY FROM THIS FILM BY THIS ONE-SIDED NEGATIVITY TOWARDS IT.

 

Hey, I'm just trying to offer the perspective of a person who loves music and loathes bullies. This is a film that glorifies a bully, that shows bullying, physical abuse and psychological manipulation as effective tools to inspire extraordinary musical achievement. Which is just sick. In my opinion, obviously.

Quite possibly, the film can accomplish some good by inspiring dialog. Did you have an experience with a vicious, abusive teacher that resulted in you achieving far greater things than you thought you could?

 

Your perspective is in the minority and it tainted your opinion of the film. Not everyone feels that way.
Point Taken; let it go.

 

I'm just glad he's all mad at something besides Prince for once.

 

I don't like bullies of any stripe.

I'm am honestly curious - has anyone reading this thread benefited from a violent, abusive educator? Was there someone in your past who slapped you and screamed at you and actually made you perform better?

One of my favorite quotes is by the humorist H. L. Menchen, and I think it's apt: For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat and wrong.

Hitting people and screaming at them is one of those things that work in "movie world" that do not work in the real world, or at least do not in my experience.

 

Well we've managed to blow any enthusiasm for this film now with this constant back and forth.
Shame.
It's an excellent MOVIE.
It's just a movie.
Don't take it so damn personally, please.