What percentage of new vinyl you buy is defective?

At least 20% defect rate and at times this has been much much higher. I put up with it because vinyl sounds so much more like listening to real music than CD or digital files. There appears to be a lot of random faults these days. Exceptions are Speakers Corner (Pallas) and MFSL (RTI) but you pay for the improved quality. I think plants are under a lot of pressure to turn out product these days. Having said that some titles appear to be almost perfect which leads me to suspect some customers don't listen to or have test pressings made.

 

To be honest I am so sick of returning new LPs that I may just give up on vinyl. I am NOT fussy, but the crap I am being sent it just a joke.

I would say the return rate is about 35%.

As for second hand and so called "Mint / Near Mint", give me a break. I would say about 10% is accurately graded.

I can't believe the low standards that people set.

 

That's just like the book business regarding paperback book returns. The publishers don't want the books back, so to get credit for returns, we merely had to rip off the covers and return them, the books were destroyed. I understand how music returns would have to be different, and you're right, no one wants a defective record. I also understand they're trying to discourage piracy. I wonder how many people would make a tape of a record and then return it to the store as defective? Still, no shop wants to discourage customers from making returns for genuinely defective records, doing that is sort of like shooting yourself in the foot.

 

In my experience, quality has improved compared with, say, seven or eight years ago. I'm definitely finding fewer of the records I'm buying are badly warped or unlistenably noisy these days.

Off-centre pressings are still a bugbear, though. I reckon around half of the new LPs I've picked up over the last year (and ALL of those I've bought on Secretly Canadian/JagJaguwar) have had this to a greater or lesser degree.

Some (Tweedy 2LP Euro pressing on Anti) I live with, others I take the craft knife to (Ryan Adams S/T UK pressing on Columbia) and some just make me feel so seasick I've decided they're beyond redemption (black vinyl pressing of Sharon Van Etten's latest).

It's frustrating, mostly because it seems to be a crapshoot as to which pressings are going to be afflicted. The £8.99 bargain basement (and United-pressed) New Pornographers debut reissue I picked up last week is perfectly centred. So why can't those charging more than double that get it right?

 

I don't know if I've been just lucky or what, but I'd say from the last 150 or so LPs I've bought both new and used from ebay along with all the typical retailers both local and online, I've had to return 2 LPs, one which was warped and one looked pretty scuffed up from shipping so it was really noisy. Other than that, they have all been spot on.

- Buck

 

I've had good luck on eBay, too. I have bought two records in awful condition; one was a buck, the other was $5.00. In this case I truly got what I paid for. Today I received a really nice SQ Quadraphonic copy of Ten Years After A Space in Time. I haven't listened to it yet because I'm redecorating my den with the quad system in it, so everything moved out and disconnected for the carpet installation tomorrow morning. The record looks like new, so I'm hopeful it will sound okay. I've not been disappointed yet. I did get a used record from a dealer in a kiosk in the mall that looks like it's brand new, and has a horrible case of the rice crispies. I went to take it back but the guy was gone....Oh well, live and learn.

 

I've been running into a lot of defective new records as well, it's a pain in the ass & very frustrating

interesting point above, about test pressings possibly not being done. that could help explain it

 

Even Beck had a bad run of the latest LP, most with non-fill and mainly near the beginning of side 2. I have one of those but didn't return it. That edgy sound wakes me up just in time to enjoy the rest.

 

Thanks for the reminder. I remember sifting through those stupid covers in the warehouse when preparing for inventory day. Great memories. Thanks.

 

I know this is the rule now but how is this even legal ? Shouldn't a manufacturer be responsible and credit a retailer ? Or do people abuse and return for three friggen clicks so returns would be too high now ?

 

Virtually none,
perhaps one percent or so?...
I buy a **** load of Lps in a given year (true to my name) and
I'm extremely picky, as I think we deserve to be, yet rarely have a problem these days.
We are truly living in the golden days of vinyl IMHO.

My personal take on returns...
I used to work weekends and holidays at a local record store for years,
and buy and large, you get the same characters returning alleged "faulty vinyl". Most on questioning own
a cheap to modest DJ deck, with a cheap cart, poorly aligned, and the bunch of them are commonly
corporate haters and class warriors, always believing to be preyed upon by the man. When auditioning
their returns, two out of ten perhaps have marginal issues at best! Just my humble observation.

I think there was more "bad" vinyl in the pre CD days than there is now.

Your mileage may vary.

 

You're welcome! Ahhh yes, inventory day. That brings back memories for me; B. Dalton had us work all night as they wouldn't allow inventory during business hours, and we didn't close the store during business hours to take inventory. The good part of that was that we didn't have to count every book ourselves; the company hired RGIS to conduct the inventory, and we had to spot check them in every section to confirm their accuracy (which was excellent, BTW.) Still, it made for a long night.

 

I've had pretty good luck with new vinyl... up until this year. I consider myself to be fairly forgiving with a lot of this stuff. I won't return a record for having a warp that is still playable (it seems like it's become a rarity to buy a record that's actually flat). What I'm less forgiving of is vinyl that would easily fail a quick visual inspection: greasy fingerprints, smudges, streaks, no-fill, etc. It probably won't come as a shock that most of my crappy vinyl was pressed at United.

A poster here emailed Matador Records complaining about a defective record, and he got a really honest response from the label that I thought was worth sharing here:

We're as frustrated by the situation as you are. Unfortunately it's become impossible to get consistent quality from any pressing plant these days.

United are as you note a prime culprit - they are so busy now that they are working 24-6, and until their new warehouse expansion is completed, they don't have sufficient space to allow the discs to dry properly before insertion.

However we have run into comparable quality control problems with Rainbo, RIP-V, QRP, MPO, Optimal and even Pallas - all of whom we have used for recent pressings.

Test pressings can be good and the actual LP can be bad. And there can be massive variations across batches.

Unfortunately this the downside of the vinyl revival - you have aging equipment that is non-replaceable, being strained far beyond the capacity for which it was originally designed, and often operated by people who were born in the age of the CD and the cassette and don't really understand what they're doing.

I'm copying in Dave Martin, who will help you with complementary replacements for all your defective discs, but please be aware that perfection (or even acceptable levels of surface noise) is hard to come by these days.

While I really appreciate how honest and candid the guy is here, this has really made me hesitant to buy new vinyl without having some knowledge of where it was pressed. It sounds like anything pressed at United these days is going to be a complete crapshoot.

 

so... RTI is the best then?

 

As I said in a previous post, the quality of vinyl has never been better from my experience. I should say this though...the people that normally scream the loudest are the ones with less tolerance, and every slight imperfection is a cause for return.

 

Guess I've been lucky so far.

 

I must be lucky - 33 records bought new in 2014 (both new albums and re-issues), and I haven't had to return any. A couple clicks on the new Beck, and a Bob Marley "Legend" where one channel is louder. My Jellyfish Bellybutton LP has an off-center label, but plays fine. A couple have been uglier than I expected (paper scuffs or marks), and many had some degree of paper bits or dust which were easy to clean. The Zeppelin, Beatles, and Hendrix re-issues I've bought this year have all met or exceeded my expectations. I don't fret much about visual imperfections if I'm happy with the sound.

I've had more trouble with used vinyl. I *expect* that used vinyl will be about one grade lower than advertised, and going by that rule I've been satisfied so far. I've had to buy about 5 records twice (out of 89 used LP's) in order to get an acceptable listening copy.

 

I'm on a really bad run right now. Had to return my copy of Endless River, then the copy they had in store was also warped. New Mellencamp, warped. There was some other title that was also less than excellent, but since I bought it in Chapel Hill, I had to keep it. So, I'd say close to 1/3 in the last two months. Take the window out longer, and it's a much lower % than that, as the level of defects dropped precipitously after Classic went under and MoFi stopped the 200 gm Anadisc series.

 

I have to say, since I upgraded my analog front-end and dialed in the set-up, my problems with new vinyl have almost completely disappeared. I've even listened to some of my "problem" vinyl on the new rig and the problems (particularly with Inner Groove Distortion and Sibilance) are mostly gone.

I occasionally get a record with too many loud pops or sides that have the dreaded "shsss, shsss", but by and large my new vinyl has been quite nice. I've purchased well over 5oo new titles this year, so I'd say my sample size if pretty decent.

Not suggesting that everyone go out and upgrade their rig, but if IGD or sibilance are the issues you are frequently encountering, setup and or limitations to your rig *might* be the bigger issue.

 

About 25-35% for me. To be honest life is too short for playing the returns game time after time, and I can rarely afford regular MoFi (or other audiophile label) releases which are more reliable in terms of pressing quality. And instead of multiple cleanings of LPs which shouldn't need to be done with new product, I'd rather be listening to more music. To some the cleaning & hunting out perfect product is fun, but not to me. It's a waste of my precious time, time I'll never get back again (it adds up!). I'm keeping my existing vinyl, and might purchase the odd new release (if the feedback on forums is over-whelmingly positive) but otherwise sticking with digital wherever possible, and the mastering is decent/excellent, until purveyors of vinyl get their QC ass in gear...

 

This reply confirms what I have suspected all along,and needs to spread all over the internet.

The fact the pressing machines are old and falling apart is only one part of the problem with new vinyl.There is a craftsmanship to mastering and pressing quality records,that is missing in most current vinyl.I am sure there are old guys out there,who are probably retired,who worked on pressing vinyl,cutting mothers and stampers back in the 50s,60s,and 70s.Has any one thought about bringing more of these guys in to teach the next generation how to do things right?

And then maybe we can work on getting better sources of vinyl than Thailand.Maybe most collectors do not,but I own a number of Thai records from the 60s and 70s.They are on very inferior and noisier vinyl,compared to what much of the rest of the world was producing at the same time.After I learned that most of the vinyl used nowadays comes from Thailand,it all made sense that new records are noisier than older ones.

 

It depends on how picky you are. I'm very picky and I'd say I find problems with abooout half the new vinyl I buy (strictly speaking of new vinyl in the digital age).

I think the truth of the situation is that there are a lot of variables that go into a record being near mint (well, mint), and thus there is so much that can go wrong.

A poll would have been perfect for this thread.

 

Last comment: off the top off my head, I would think that a 'quality' manufactured good would maybe have a 1-2% defect rate, and I have to say, it looks like most reports here are saying at least over 5%. Doesn't that say something in general about vinyl as a manufactured product? Maybe vinyl isn't intended to be manufactured on a mass scale...? Maybe making records should be an artisan craft...???

Then again, I suppose car enthusiasts will find a lot 'wrong' with a Chevy if they have higher standards and own a BMW or something...? I suppose there's an analogy in the vinyl industry with consumer releases vs. audiophile releases. Maybe the OP's question makes more sense while keeping in mind what type of vinyl people are buying.

In comparison though, anybody have anything to say about the defect rate when the LP was king (or queen, have you) in the '50s, '60s, and '70s?

 

I am curious about your upgrade path. I started with a Rega RP3 fitted with the Elys II from the factory, and have mostly enjoyed it. However, I do have IGD issues sometimes, and the Elys II is apparently pretty well known for this. My next upgrades will be speakers and right now I am looking at probably an RP8 down the road with a better cartridge.

 

First of all, vinyl has almost always been a mass-produced item, with notable exceptions. Remember also, that considering warped records as a manufacturing defect is actually erroneous, since most warps are likely the result of improper storage and/or handling during the shipping process. You're quite correct that some people are very, very picky and consider a single "pop" or "click" to be a manufacturing defect, while other folks simply ignore something that slight. I fall somewhere in between the two extremes, but my biggest issues aren't with surface defects (I've experienced a very small number of such), but with off-center pressings. Even so, I'm just getting 1 - 2%, not the 5% others seem to be reporting. I guess I've been lucky by comparison to some. That said, I've been buying records since the 1960s and I'd say that defects are less common now than then; I remember getting records where the label was off center and pressed into the grooves, and in the '70s there was a lot of crap in the vinyl; some records were so bad that it was like you were listening to a bowl of rice crispies. You just have to take your defects back to the place of purchase and get a replacement. I know that several people on here don't like to do it, but you shouldn't have to accept poor quality just because your favorite store makes you feel that you're robbing them when you bring defective product back. It's the cost of doing business, and they can adjust their prices to make up for returns if they don't get a break from the record manufacturers.

I'm not sure making records an artisan craft is necessarily a good idea, either, since the prices would then be very expensive, effectively killing the vinyl resurgence. How many folks here would be willing or able to spend $100 or more for an 'artisan' record?