Vinyl Grading -- thoughts

Discussion in 'Marketplace Discussions' started by Syd, Aug 16, 2014.

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  1. Raynie

    Raynie Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Snortland, Oregano
    Ebay removes neutral and negative grading when a seller refunds, even if they don't cover return ship and when they are clearly in the wrong. That's one reason why so many crooked sellers have high ratings.

    Also, if you discuss a rating contingent upon a discount, eBay will almost automatically decide in their favor. They have a policy against doing that.

    If it were me, I'd demand a 50%-75% discount or return the item for refund with both ways shipping paid. If he doesn't agree to that, escalate it to eBay and let them decide the outcome -- your chances are quite good they will refund you 100% and let you keep it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2014
  2. NotebookWriter

    NotebookWriter Forum Resident

    And that was my point. A knowledgeable seller like yourself would know that some buyers do care which pressing or mastering they get. This was a guy selling off his own collection, and I assume he'd never encountered someone like me. He could have been more tactful, but I imagine he was genuinely puzzled by my complaint.
     
  3. Veech

    Veech Space In Sounds

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    I asked for half back and got it. I think it was $32 + $16 shipping, got $16 back so I'm $32 all in. I'm ok with that. It's almost like you could do this to any seller, demand a partial refund or open a claim, forcing the seller to give the refund in order to avoid a negative rating.
     
  4. DaleH

    DaleH Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southeast
    Sure you could but that would be the last thing you got from me if you were scamming me.
     
  5. DaleH

    DaleH Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southeast
    To begin with you only have to pay return shipping on an ebay returns, not both ways. Soon you won't even have to pay the return shipping on not as described items.

    If the item doesn't meet the description I would ask for all my money back including return shipping. Any seller worth his salt would agree to this if he made a mistake.

    At $16 shipping this must must be international? I would still send it back or this hump will still over grade his crap and settle for whatever he can get.
     
  6. Veech

    Veech Space In Sounds

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    yes it was international, from the UK. I thought about asking for the full refund but being a Y&B -1 -1 press, I decided to keep it. It's the only time so far, out of about 30 eBay transactions, that I felt the need to ask for compensation. It plays a lot better than it looks and with a good cleaning it might be ok. But thanks for your feedback, I'll keep it in mind.
     
  7. Romerovm

    Romerovm Forum Resident

    Location:
    Birmingham, AL
    Is this an automatic function, or something the seller has to request? Removing feedback after processing a refund. I have never heard of this.
     
  8. Raynie

    Raynie Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Snortland, Oregano
    Negative feedback is automatically removed if a seller refunds; they remove it 1-2 wks after the fact so it's out of sight/mind for the person who left it. If you actually do call and ask about the removal, they'll say it's because the case was closed to the buyer's satisfaction. The only time feedback sticks is when eBay has to refund (unresponsive seller), and more than often a seller can even get those removed if they call enough times and speak with the right person. Once it's removed they cannot put it back. I just got off the phone w/ them an hour ago to ask why my neg. FB was removed from a 99.7% seller who sent me a mangled jacket (ring, dents and punch hole, was listed EX+), the response was it was a mistake to do it but they can't reverse it. This has happened to me more times than I could tell you.
     
  9. Romerovm

    Romerovm Forum Resident

    Location:
    Birmingham, AL
    Wow. I had no idea. So many Power Sellers must be selling trashed records getting away with it with a 100% positive feedback. Thanks for the info.
     
  10. DaleH

    DaleH Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southeast
    Disgusting.

    No wonder ebay is going down the tubes. First they make feedback as a byyer meaningless and now feedback as a seller is meaningless. With no trust in the marketplace of course there will be no business except for rubes.

    I recently sold an item and the buyer doubted my integrity on two separate enquiries. I logged on to put him on my blocked buyer list but he already had bought the item. He did contact me to say the item was as described but I still haven't got any feedback from him yet.

    Now I know why the guy won't trust anyone on ebay.:(
     
  11. ArpMoog

    ArpMoog Forum Resident

    Location:
    Detroit
    This happened to me and what really got me Angry was the seller relisted the record with the same NM description
    once returned. The record was borderline vg+
     
    Raynie likes this.
  12. ggergm

    ggergm another spring another baseball season

    Location:
    Minnesota
    Most of my used record purchases come from maybe six to ten retailers on Musicstack, reliably purchasing hundreds of great records from them for over a decade. I trust their grading and have had great experiences with their customer service when occasionally things have slipped through the proverbial cracks.

    Recently I've been looking for a live Ten Years After record, appropriately called "Recorded", and found a new seller which rated it M- for both the album and the cover. Going through the rest of their inventory, I noticed almost all of their records were rated M-. I couldn't do that with my own personal collection and those albums been treated with kid gloves. When I questioned them on their grading, they told me that it had some ring wear. That automatically makes the cover VG+ in my book, two grades down from M-. Now I don't trust any of their grades.

    I looked further and found a M- copy from Brothers Records, who knows the true meaning of that grade, which is "nearly perfect."

    Somebody should tell the first seller my favorite salesman's phrase: You can kill the calf once; you can fleece a sheep many times.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2014
  13. fab4

    fab4 Forum Resident

    Location:
    France
    Have similar experience as you : when i see a NM record listed i am interested to buy, on eBay, i usually ask the seller to provide me few more details on the actual condition (under strong light) ... and turns out the records is overgraded on 90% of the time :-(
     
    eddiel likes this.
  14. ClassicRockTragic

    ClassicRockTragic Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    I am lucky... I have a good local record dealer.

    It's funny, a record can look perfect, sound ok on his in house system, but you get it home and it's noisy.

    I purchased a so so copy of an album, and for whatever reason it would not play though on my turntable, I suspect it's because I have an ortofon cartridge which is set really light at a gram. But it played through on his technics turntable at the shop.

    I just take em back and get a store credit.

    But I also think regular people selling online do not have any idea about records.

    And the other problem is that people's definition of condition genuinely varies from person to person. Not just with records but with everything. It's not necessarily deceptive just different opinions,
     
  15. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL

    I once payed a small fortune for a supposedly EX+ rare double Lp only to notice upon arrival that the MF who sold it had covered it in black shoe polish !!! I got conned !!:cussing::cussing::cussing::cussing::cussing::cussing::cussing:
     
  16. eddiel

    eddiel Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I once had a seller confirm the grade only for the lp to arrive with deep scratches.

    Sometimes you can actually see it's over graded just by looking at the photos provided.
     
  17. Axis_67

    Axis_67 Senior Member

    Location:
    Virginia
    You need to share the story and post a link of the sale. People need to know if someone is pulling a trick like that.
     
  18. Raynie

    Raynie Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Snortland, Oregano
    I would say at least 75% of online record purchases I made in the last year (about 30) were overgraded, many by more than a full grade. To me there is overgrading type I, where you pay the graded price, and type II, when it's still a bargain at the actual condition. Most are type I.

    I received a discount (50% minimum) or returned all of them. At least five of them ended up being long, drawn out battles. My favorite was a man in FL who, upon seeing photos I was taking claimed I switched his record, accusing me of having a flea market shop and offering me Jane Fonda records. Luckily he took hi-res pictures in his ad showing unique features on the label I discovered later, and directed this to eBay - they had no idea who was lying until then. I also TWICE got sent US records listed as UK (sellers: "but it says 'recorded in England'"), several records of G/G+ listed NM, moldy records, reprints listed original. It was a rough year for buying.

    I've also discovered I don't really need to shop online for records. The shops around me are fantastic, much to my delight. I also made 1 purchase on SH, that was excellent also.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2014
  19. stenway

    stenway Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
  20. fab4

    fab4 Forum Resident

    Location:
    France
  21. stenway

    stenway Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    yes I learn a lot of comics collectors than records collectors, comics collectors have a very strong ways to care his comics, and as you see even exist a company that grade (is not cheap, I think the low price is $30 plus shipping)...

    and I dont think grade is subjetive, and thats the problem with many online sellers, sell things Mint or NM and are true VG+ scratchy or bends corners etc...

    you cant say "yes the records for me is NM" and the real true is that record is VG+, or you cant say "but have 50 years old, you need understand that, for that years you need that understand that condition is not good". You need grade like the actual condition of the record today, no matter is the record have 50 years old.

    we records collectors need a truly pro guide to grading, every single detail in the record matters to me, it would be nice do it... a real pro guide like comics collectors do.

    by example the last week I recieve a "mint" record... and come on! the artwork have marks of pen on the top (I mean NOT ink, I mean like if somebody write on the top a number say "$9.99" embosed, and the seller dont say anything about that, very deshonest sellers around.

    pro grading comic from CGC, 8.0 http://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-cont...ve-comics-27-cgc-8.0-pinnacle-hill.jpg?9098e0
     
  22. fab4

    fab4 Forum Resident

    Location:
    France
    I agree with you that we need an accurate grading scale as the one proposed by the CGC. But it might be very hard to use a grading like that for grading playback though.
    I really don't understand how sellers can misgrade a NM record. NM condition it is the easiest grade to evaluate IMO : NM means flawless ! imaculate ! Just put the damm record under a strong light and see the record how it looks like on different angles ... it tooks less than 30 seconds. NM should be the least subjective grade ... but I am dreaming I know :mad: ;)
     
  23. stenway

    stenway Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    yes! actually grading is sooo easy!!! but! if is easy if you are an honest person, again a lot online sellers are very deshonest, or use ridiculous gradings like "strongest VG+++", is soooo easy check the damn artwork and say if have any dust brown mark for the age, bends in corners, cuts in the sides... and for the disc, yes again so damn easy check with a strong light marks or scratches and play the record and hear surface noise etc... so easy is be honest.

    also exist one bigger problem with sellers is PACKING RECORDS!!! they dont use OVERSIZED BOXES, they use a cheap normal boxes... I have a very bad experiences buy NM, Mint... records that in pictures looks great, but!!! for a bad packing!!!! the records arrive destroyed with bends corners and damage, you want see what Im talking about? I made some pictures trying to explain the sellers how packing the records that I buy: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/si08jgdmwbvzzva/AACJON0p7nwndvzEazHNGmu2a?dl=0

    1. use and oversized boxes can prevent damage of corners and sides of the record, why? becuase if anybody mash! the box, only the box suffer the bend but record stay away the sides.

    2. dont send records with the DISC inside the jackets, that cause CUTS in top or bottom, (see pictures a big cut in the top)

    3. use plastic bublues outside the records.

    4. and last and better USE A BOX IN A BOX! with a lot newspaper, yes! a box in a box... like this: http://cl.ly/image/1w3y3E3S0Q1J

    5. DONT USE crap boxes like this: https://www.bagsunlimited.com/p-3129-album-mailer-folder.aspx again a mash corner box? so you get a mash corner record!

    packing is CHEAP and EASY, again if you are a honest seller.
     
    fab4 likes this.
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