John Lennon on Joni Mitchell: 'Overeducated'.

But enough about Steely Dan.

 

I guess that would be the only answer one could possibly give, if they were hell bent in wanting to believe this about Yoko.

 

Of course everyone can have an opinion. But that still doesn't mean they are factually correct about what happened/is happening.

 

I have done more than my share of reading as a fan of 52, over the decades. And I have tons of audio and texted interviews with Lennon. The man was honest and candid to a fault... so I listen to his own words, and look into his eyes and soul. You can believe whatever tell-all tabloid garbage you need to.

 

It's presumptuous for you to think that those who have that opinion about Yoko have no basis for their opinions.

 

and you can believe whatever happy crap you need to.

 

But a working class Beatle would have been something to be.

 

No one who lived with Yoko Ono has the right to call any other human being "irritating."

 

I believe reality, both good as well as bad/horrendous/depressing. Lennon often revealed when he was often depressed, unhappy, miserable. When he said he wanted to be with Yoko and she saved him, I believe him -- not you, and not some book.

 

I know kneejerk Yoko bashers.... the woman cannot even blink properly to their liking. It's presumptuous of them to unconditionally think negative of everything pertaining to Ono. I also know faux Lennon fans who deny the man his happiness with her because all they really cared about wasn't the man's happiness, but rather how long it would be until The Beatles reunited.

 

It's not kneejerk. I formulated my opinion from years of reading about the Beatles. But it's ok if you want to believe she's Mother Teresa. Some think Courtney Love is Snow White.

 

If people wanted to make comparisons to Paul, Paul/Heather seems odd - shouldn't it be Paul/Linda? Same time period as John/Yoko and Linda became part of Paul's music.

I guess the difference is that people mocked Linda back in the day due to her lack of musical polish but few if any seemed to dislike her - I don't think she was vilified/hated like Yoko was. No one ever blamed Linda for breaking up the Beatles!

 

Until the "who made some great music" part, I thought you meant various participants in this thread!

 

Linda has, IMO, also generally been mocked but it's always been, "WTH is she doing on stage, she's not a musician", rather than, "WTH is she doing running John Lennon's life." In a way, the Yoko bashing is the ultimate tribute to her - no one ever thought for a moment that Linda was driving the bus.

 

Agree. I think people always perceived - correctly, I believe - that Paul talked Linda into being involved in music, not the other way around, whereas the presumption is that Yoko pushed her way into John's musical life.

I still find it interesting that after Linda died, suddenly she went from being viewed as a distracting no-talent to being seen as a crucial element of Macca's music!

I think the John/Yoko relationship was really complicated. Was it the magical, transcendent love story Yoko wants us to believe? Probably not. Was Yoko harmful to John in some ways? Probably. Was Yoko great for John in many ways? Seems like it. Will we ever know the "real truth"? Nope...

 

After being a member of one of the most progressive pop bands of the 60s, at some point John decided that he'd rather be a musical luddite. Thankfully this wasn't crystallized until the Beatles were nearly finished, and consequently RAM was spared from John's input.

 

Well I, for one, do relate to both of them minus the musical talent........

 

Even Germaine Greer thought Yoko scary but I think she really filled a need in John's life and it says probably more about John than it does Yoko, if people say Yoko controlled him it was possibly just as likely that he wanted that control. And as we all know he called her Mother....

 

and of course it took John to die for Yoko to be somewhat rehabilitated too .....

 

Unreal. Definition of luddite:

"a member of any of the bands of English workers who destroyed machinery, esp. in cotton and woolen mills, that they believed was threatening their jobs"

Yeah, the world was lucky to hear Linda on backup vocals instead of Lennon on Ram, that masterpiece. Damn shame she is not on Sgt. Pepper. Bet she would have nailed the backup on "She's Leaving Home". I bet Abbey Road and the White Album would have been better with her instead of John also. Those damn "luddites"……...

 

i was going to same the same thing about Ram, John was well out of that, however i did understand what the poster meant by luddite, however you could argue that by the time the Beatles had finished nearly all the innovation that could be done was done and dusted and there was nowhere to go but back to basics, which is what Let it Be was supposed to be of course....by 1970 everybody was a luddite....

 

I think it's perfectly ok to put all the bad apples in one basket

 

I like Yoko. Seems like she's an interesting person with authenticity and creativity, plus she has the right values (peace, justice, and hopefulness) IMO, for which she tries to speak up and use publicity to promote. She gets up some people's noses, but I appreciate that - it only proves to me that she must be doing something right. Plus, considering that all anybody ever wants to talk to her about is John and Beatles Beatles Beatles, I think she has been remarkably polite and positive most all of the time.

Also, I don't understand why people think they need to comment on artists' personal lives all the time. But, since they lived much of their lives in public...

 

Aw, come on. They obviously didn't take things nearly as seriously as many Forum members do. My take is that John was probably doing some friendly jousting with her. And even if he was being somewhat critical, it isn't as though John wasn't self critical of his own work. I'm convinced Joni knew all this and took no offense. In fact she probably enjoyed telling a Beatle encounter story later, much as anyone would.

 

And to me the most important point is that Lennon chose to be with her. He wasn't coerced, hypnotized, or brainwashed. So whatever her role was in Lennon's life, it was one he wanted her to have.