Audiophile Snake Oil?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Neilson77, Dec 18, 2014.

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  1. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    It's not just any kind of snake oil—it's Ultra Deluxe Snake Oil™

    Seriously, the really good stuff is that much better. However money is far from the only consideration, you also have to know what you are doing
     
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  2. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    or pay someone who does
     
  3. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    [​IMG]
    " You've got to know what you're doing. I mean, some people think I'm mad. The villagers say I'm mad, the tourists say I'm mad, well I am mad, but I'm naturally mad. I don't use any chemicals."
     
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  4. Greenears

    Greenears Active Member

    Onboard sound card quality doesn't surprise me. A decade ago computers often had poor audio, or tried to get to "barely acceptable" wherever that line is. Nowadays they are including 24 bit DACs with 120 dB performance. Things have changed in the last couple of years.. There is an in depth review on Anandtech comparing ABX on a number of outboard DACs and Realtek HD DAC that is in a lot of ultrabooks. The results are surprising. After reading it I checked what I had in my laptop, and I had the Realtek. I'm sure other brands are competitive.

    If you want my $0.02 which is probably different than many on this board, you have to spend very little nowadays to get a transparent 24bit DAC, ADC and SS amp. ABX test it to be sure. Spend all your money on transducers and room acoustics. It's that simple. I've been doing a bunch of ABX testing myself to check this theory and that is where it is pointing. If you are recording, ABX is very easy. Get a switch, A is direct out, B is looped through your soundcard ADC and DAC. Have a third person switch blind. If you can't detect the loop you have no audible loss in your digital path. Record your vinyl in bliss. Don't forget to level match. Have fun. It is ear opening.
     
  5. scompton

    scompton Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arlington, VA
    The experience that blew it for me was a head-fi meet right after HD-800s came out. There were 3 of them there and one rig was clearly better than the others, although they all cost about the same. The best rig was a Marantz CD player and a 10K TTVJ tube amp. It did sound great, although not worlds better than my vintage orthos and Stax driven from a Realistic STA-2200 Mosfet receiver.

    They guy whose rig it was also brought the Norah Jones album that had just come out. I like Norah Jones so I popped it in the player and after a couple of seconds, I had the headphones off. It was totally unlistenable. My gear is forgiving enough that I can listen to that album, even though I can still tell it clips. There's just too much music that I love, that only has a single mastering. I'd hate to not be able to listen to it.
     
  6. EdogawaRampo

    EdogawaRampo Senior Member

    There are diminishing returns I think. Similar to the way it takes higher doses for a drug user to get the same high, it takes larger amounts of money to eke out incremental improvements IMO. No that I own any super audiophile gear, I think my mid-fi set up is pretty good and I can certainly hear all kinds of differences in SQ from recording to recording.

    I recently hooked up my previous preamp (which had completely refurbished last year and put into storage) and there was a HUGE difference in sound between it and my current preamp, both of which are older pieces (a McIntosh C22CE from 1995 and an Accuphase C-280 from 1982 or so).

    Not sure if people consider those audiophile pieces or not, but I think the Accuphase probably was in its day. I certainly prefer it to the McIntosh, though the C22CE had its good points. The C22CE is lots more 'forgiving' of bad recordings; the Accuphase is merciless on them.
     
  7. acdc7369

    acdc7369 Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    The only thing the Scoutmaster has over the Technics turntables is less Rumble. So you think the difference in Rumble is what makes the Scoutmaster a "very high end turntable" and the SL-1210Mk2 not a "very high end" turntable, even though the Technics is better than the VPI in every other way?
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2014
  8. Murphy13

    Murphy13 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland
    I ran into an audiophile once and he considers McIntosh entry level
     
  9. Wngnt90

    Wngnt90 Forum Resident

    I gave up worrying about how my systems sound compared to the myriad of other systems out their regardless of their cost or component make up. My system is all vintage with the exception of the digital components. I really like they way they sound and I can't be bothered getting into an endless upgrade cycle like some folks do. I would much rather sit back with a favourite beverage and listen to the music that I really do love on the vintage gear that I've assembled that puts a huge smile on my face.
     
  10. Scott Wheeler

    Scott Wheeler Forum Resident

    Location:
    ---------------
    "Nearly as good" is subjective. But they are different, that is objective. So no, it isn't snake oil.
     
  11. Scott Wheeler

    Scott Wheeler Forum Resident

    Location:
    ---------------
    OK what is the highest fidelity vinyl playback gear?
     
  12. DaleH

    DaleH Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southeast
    The premise of the thread doesn't meet the "snake oil" level IMO. An SL1200 is a competent table and a Super OM 30 is a nice cartridge but in my experience they aren't the end of the road in audio enjoyment for me. If you can't hear a difference you saved yourself a lot of grief (or enjoyment) and money though. This level of vinyl reproduction can provide a large amount of enjoyment.

    The Super OM30 can sound very different depending on the loading and compliance match. I would never say it handles the upper ranges as well as some of my cartridges can.

    The "audiophile" thing is all about the last few percent of involvement for me. It has nothing to do with money in my experience and if someone says 10K or 20K or 50K is the beginning of high end it just makes no sense in my opinion. A 50k system may sound better than a 5k system, or not.
     
  13. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    Both subtle and something big. And sometimes subtle changes are something big, depends on the type of listener you are, and, frankly, what you're listening to -- the kinds of music, the kinds of recordings -- and what you're listening for.
     
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  14. DaleH

    DaleH Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southeast
    I don't know what the highest fidelity vinyl playback gear is (if there is such a thing). The most important parts for me are a fairly neutral cartridge to give the mastering a chance. Probably just as important is the tracking and tracing. Of course my best performing cartridge right now is a DIY re tipped DL103 that I have only $50 and a bit of time invested in.:) I find sibilant type distortion very distracting.
     
  15. cd fiend

    cd fiend Member

    No clue if it is snake oil since I cannot afford any kind of gear in the 5 digit price range. Not many people can, but I don't expect the people that can afford it to say, "My system cost $235,000 and I think I might downgrade since I can't hear the mids like I'd heard on my old Sharp component stack I bought at Goodwill."

    However, I do trust some of the magazines and some opinions and even then I ask myself, "Of course it will sound better than my system, but how much better? And at what cost incremental?"
     
  16. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member

    Who knows; you're asking for an absolute regarding a distortion ridden medium. Good luck with that.
     
  17. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    That's just trolling.
     
  18. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member

    Unless vinyl has suddenly improved its distortion figures overnight and that question Scott asked wasn't an absolute, then it might be unpalatable, but seeing as there's no one right objective answer (and how could one possibly know or have one?), then it's arguably no worse than the original question...
     
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  19. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member

    Good points. There are some great decks out there, and I've always loved Garrard 301/401/501s but cost bent again be the some barometer here either.

    That said, in a vinyl based system where it's the main source, then the biggest portion of expenditure needs to go there, unlike in digital.
     
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  20. missan

    missan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Stockholm
    There is no way anyone can possibly know. You know there is no way.
     
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  21. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member

    Indeed.
     
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  22. Scott222C

    Scott222C Loner, Rebel & Family Man

    Location:
    here
  23. Neilson77

    Neilson77 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Nottingham UK
    This honestly wasn't posted to troll, just wanted peoples opinions.
     
  24. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member

    I didn't take your post that way. I think the original question is valid too.

    I think people buy stuff for a whole variety of reasons, the buying decisions often aren't as straightforward as we think, know our even understand at times and I think the same applies to audio.

    If anything, I think that process is sometimes harder today than ever. The plethora of options alone in digital for instance is confusing enough never mind when it's allied to the pace of change.

    All the more important them to have a good idea what you need, who offers what that will deliver all or most of that and what price you want to pay for functionality, fit, finish and the rest. Tough times, but fun too.
     
  25. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member

    And "tough" in the very lightest of senses!
     
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