Audiophile Snake Oil?

The things that we know something about will always matter the most, as I see it. And that is the looks and outer design and how known the brand is. Everything else is very hard to have an opinion on, when buying.

 

It's easy to have an opinion it's very hard to know the facts.

 

Your advice on the subject was "Go for high-fidelity, not necessarily just high end. There is a big difference." And when I ask you what would be the standard for high fidelity in vinyl playback you say "Who knows?" So how is your advice in any way useful if you don't even know what equipment most exemplifies your advice? How do you even know it's good advice at all? And how does someone follow it if you can't point to the best example yourself?

 

Some one else suggested that "Go for high-fidelity, not necessarily just high end. There is a big difference." So I was just trying to get a handle on how that person would gauge "high fidelity" so as to actually follow that advice.

 

Not getting into this Scott. Missan called it out well enough. Many ways to achieve high fidelity and you know this. Incidentally, you didn't ask about a standard. Check your post.

 

I trust my answer earlier covered off the finer points for you.

 

What an idiot .

 

When you hear the Kronos turntable you will retract every single word you have said. Its the best source I have heard in 35 years of checking out Hi Fi.

 

It's the Kronos turntable . Hear it for yourself.

 

Great. Set that as the standard then. Sure as hell's hot, someone will have a different view!

 

The consensus about SQ would be on a rather low SQ level, after that it´s anyone´s guess. Also to know what a TT is contributing with regarding distortion is a difficult task.

 

One person's snake oil is another person's best damn upgrade they ever made. There are no absolutes in audio...how can there be when no two sets of ears hear the same sound exactly the same way.

 

I ran into one once that said McIntosh was way overrated and way over priced. Everyone has an opinion in audio....some right...some wrong.

 

Same here.I have heard some hi-end systems that sounded really good and some that didn't.Case in point.At a particular audio show one room was touting this huge $2500( sale price) sub woofer with components whom I can't remember the name now.They were playing depeche modes "Policy of Truth".I enjoy listening to that song on my vintage Pioneer A-70 integrated amp and Cerwin Vegas 317p speakers.Well my system totally annihilated that setup on that song.Couldn't leave that room fast enough.Muddy and lack of detail came to mind.Granted I know that is one example but it made me realize I don't need ultra hi end gear.I have become accustomed to my mid-fi vintage and I am ok with it.Don't get me wrong though.Nothing against hi end as I do enjoy the different sound and if it falls in my lap cheap I am there.

 

Entry level to what I wonder?

 

Unfortunately nobody knows which are right or wrong...

 

Gateway drug to tubeaholism, at least the old stuff.

 

If it's right for the person holding the opinion then that's good enough.

There was a comment following one of my posts in here earlier relating to my opinion and how it may negatively influence someone else on the basis that my opinion was incorrect.

Assuming that the Internet is full of opinions, about any given topic, in this case a potential audio purchase, the end responsibility less with the one doing the buying. If I buy something that flops on the back of someone else's opinion, that's not said other person's problem.

However, why there is an issue with seeking out high fidelity than just high price, I'm still trying to work out....

 

The difference between a mid/upper-fi system and a high-end is not subtle. I've heard systems of all price ranges, some budget ones that just magically clicked together, and some expensive ones that did nothing for me. But comparing, for my example, my Dual CS5000 to my now departed VPI Aries turntable, shows two analog playback systems that are a world apart. If you haven't experienced it in person then it's hard to describe. Sure you can use the words more detail, bigger soundstage, etc etc but unless you are familiar with the whole system and the changes that one component can make, then describing the gap between the two is hard to do.

 

If you didn't want to get into this why offer advice that is useless? Incidentally the best is, by definition, a "standard" by which all else is measured. So yes, I did ask for you to cite a standard by which any of us can gauge your advice to seek fidelity.

 

No, it didn't cover anything. You have yet to tell us anything useful in regards to your advice that we should "go for high fidelity." It's about as useful as telling someone "just get a really great sounding system" or "go for good sound."

 

To speak more directly to Neilson's original post, I don't love every single rip pbthal has done - but 9 times out of 10, I do find his rips to be my favorites. For me the quality of his rips comes down to three factors: (1) They are dead-quiet noise-wise; (2) They have excellent detail retrieval in the midrange and lower midrange; and (3) They have very good bass control.

That said, even when pbthal's rip is my favorite, I usually can find one or more rips by others that are in the same ballpark. But once I live with them, the differences, while perhaps small or subtle, become unambiguous, and so in that sense pb's rips are very clearly better to my ears, even if the "amount" of "betterness" is relatively small.

I think the same goes for the larger question of different levels of equipment. So IMHO the question isn't really how "big" the differences might be, but rather how important or significant the differences are to each listener. Two different people might agree that a difference is quite subtle - but each of them might care more or less about that subtle difference. So therefore each might have a different opinion about how important or reasonable it is to invest a lot of time, effort, and/or money to capture that subtle difference.

That's my $.02 at any rate.

 

I tuned into this conversation about audio about a year ago. I'd been using the same Onkyo receiver, CD player and B&W bookshelf speakers since 1993 without once thinking about sound quality, eventhough the speakers were beginning to make phapping noises. Needing/wanting a new turntable sucked me in. I've since replaced everything and I'm listening to what you'd call an entry level stereo.

I'd initially been skeptical about DACS. I really struggled with the idea of purchasing even a very modest one. But putting the Modi between the airport express and the amplifier made an immediately audible difference. Getting an external phono preamp made a difference. Every time I've listened to the consensus here I've been rewarded with a more enjoyable musical experience. I'll always be a skeptic, but I've been drinking the snake oil and now I find myself wanting to test whether I can hear the difference if I invest in fancy speaker cables.

 

Maybe you should know, my reference to "not getting into it" meant I didn't want to get into a barney with you at 7am when I read your post. And your comment around "useless advice" is yours to stick where the sun doesn't come out.

The thread I think is my right as much as anyone's to post in.

For vinyl? Idler drive? Belt drive? Direct Drive? Arm type: 9", 12", S-type, Straight...? Cartridge type? Mat type? Onboard or offboard power supply? Base construction? Stock model, upgraded? You want a standard on the back of that?

Or do you want to go for whichever gives you the closest reproduction of the original piece? Or as near as you'll get with LP...so yeah, you best come up with a scope.

 

Glad you noticed.

You've yet to add anything worth anything to this thread at all beyond baiting, so you can shove that comment as well. But if you want to spoon feed someone, you go ahead. I like to think people have a brain and can use it to do some of their own research into a topic, but maybe you just need it spelt out for you. I like to do my own legwork.

One of the issues that blights the hobby is the "spend more, get better" logic which falls on its ar$e these days (not the only thing I wish would fall on its backside either tonight...). That view is less relevant as technology has improved. Gear that gives a more faithful representation of the music is out there for relatively low cost. Your interpretation of "great" is up to you or anyone else to determine. If you're being a purist about it, it's the most neutral, if you're at the other end of the scale, it's the sound that you like or want to hear, not necessarily the warts and all.

Whether that makes gear of high cost "audiophile snake oil" is another matter and the buying rationale is different for everyone.