5.1 vs. stereo mix differences. Post your favorite, or most notorious!

They're dry yet crisp!

"Like white wine when it's chilled.."

(guess that old EJ lyric Nobby ..! )

 

If you're not keen on the DTS CD with the old Quad mix of "Fly Like An Eagle", there's a newer 5.1 remix (on DVD-V in Dolby Digital) of that album in the 30th Anniversary set which you might want to check out as an alternative, it is mostly excellent imho

 

Never say never! Stranger things have happened in the wacky world of 5.1..!

 

To me, if the surround mix is not noticeable, I don't see why you'd even bother with it. In my listening room, I'm generally seated fairly close to the surround speakers. I appreciate the Chesky approach to surround, which is more atmospheric, but if it's just an echo of the front speakers (or with many live albums just the audience sound), I'm just going to listen to it in stereo and not even bother with the surround set up. To each his own...

 

Then your philosophy runs counter to that of every re-recording mixer in Hollywood. Read Tom Holman's books for an explanation as to the thought behind how surround mixing is supposed to work:

http://www.amazon.com/Surround-Sound-running-Tomlinson-Holman/dp/0240808290

http://www.amazon.com/Sound-Film-Te...N1Y_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1418948420&sr=1-1

Dolby has some good papers as well:

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-surround-7-1-for-theater-tech-paper.pdf

https://www.rsem.com/pdf_manuals/Dolby/General_Information/Surround Sound Technologies.pdf

It's about subtlety -- it's not about an "in your face" experience where you're always aware the surround speakers are there. It's the difference between a stew that has way too much salt and pepper vs. a stew that's seasoned just right. I don't dispute there are people who prefer strongly-spiced food, but I think it takes skill, taste, and experience to know how much is too much.

 

TSmithPage will no doubt respond for themselves Vidiot but I'm guessing they were expressing their preference more for active discrete surround music mixes rather than suggesting Hollywood movies and TV shows should be mixed in such a way?

Personally feel it's only right for movies to be more centre & front heavy, with the focus on the action taking place onscreen, with ambience/accents/effects in the rears as & when appropriate..

..but with music there can be much more interpretation of where to pan instruments and so on in the surround soundfield..

..with 5.1 music there's still more logical (or more natural even) placement for instrumentation, with, say, lead vocals front & centre, backing vocals in the rears, rhythm section up front, synth pads, orchestral swells and effects in the rear, LFE could be utilized for very low bass on dance music/electronica or with instruments that go that low (pipe organ, etc) for example but lots of scope within those parameters..

.. I have a lot of respect for those talented fellows who remix music into 5.1 who really have a feel for such effective placement and utilize the multiple speaker channels at their disposal to the full (chaps like Steven Wilson, Elliot Scheiner, Greg Penny, Bob Clearmountain, Andy Jackson, Ronald Prent, Thom Cadley, Tony Visconti, Nathaniel Kunkel, Simon Heyworth, Frank Filipetti and so on..).

 

I think the new 5.1 mix by Steven Wilson of "Songs From the Big Chair" is just marvelous. It really accentuates Curt's bass playing and opens up the sound stage for the layers of synths that previous were one big wall of sound. A phenomenal job. Same can be said for his mixes of XTC so far!

 

Yeah, surround sound for films never crossed my mind. I don't even have a set up to watch movies in surround- my focus is on the music. I recall the old days of Earthquake and those other movies where shaking you in the theatre was the whole focus. Probably entertaining once or twice but obviously not a successful formula in the long run.

 

The key word in this post is Hollywood. Holman is concerned with mixing surround for FILMS, not music. He has always been a proponent for diffuse, dipolar, non-localized surrounds. THXs glory days were in the era of Pro-Logic, when discreet surrounds were not invented for home-use yet, so diffuse was all he could hope for. Subtlety may be OK for movies, which are generally center-centric, but music is a whole other animal. And I don't recall Holman ever mixing a surround music disc, so I don't even know why he is being brought up here. Ambience mixes may be good for classical, where you're trying to reproduce a room, but they just don't cut it for most pop. Station To Station must be your favorite music surround mix, because it sure is subtle, to the point of non-existence. Nothing beats the sound of being in the middle of a band. I want ghost peppers in my music. The only "too much" I can think of is Wayne Coyne's mixes.

 

It's all about taste, really. My favorite discs have lots of discrete activity but it always sounds natural. Example -- Elton John - Goodbye Yellow Brick Road. "Dirty Little Girl" is a great example of this - the music feels natural and powerful, the section near the end where Elton's voice is layered shouting "Dirty" over and over, and some of the voices come from the rear, some from the front, and you really feel like you're at the center of the action.

The same disc has a great atmospheric moment during "Sweet Painted Lady" where ocean surf sound comes from the rear and eventually the front. It's a cool little moment, especially in the car.

In another corner sits Pere Ubu - The Modern Dance. Undeniably avant-garde, lots of stuff comes from the rears on this disc, including the main "vocals" at times. Nothing ever really swirls or spins around you, but crank it up and the music just works, especially for this band.

Steely Dan - Gaucho - most sound purists would probably appreciate this disc's subtlety. The BG vox come from the rears and the music always sounds natural. There are a few discrete moments, but it's very very conservative and respectful.

I personally think Steven Wilson has done wonders with the Tull catalog. I had no interest in Benefit until I picked up the DTS disc. The snare in particular is fantastic, and the surround mix is sublime.

 

I just got this DVD from a friend, and I really enjoyed hearing the songs in 5.1. Your post inspired me to give it a spin . I watched the videos first, then listened again with the TV off

 

I nearly fell off my chair the first time I heard Bernie yell out "WATCH OUT NOW!" in his best cod-West Indian accent on the 5.1 remix of "Jamaica Jerk Off"

..and how about Ray's tambourine going awol in "All The Girls Love Alice" crazily panning around the room! What a mix!

Of the extras on that disc, Greg Penny's stripped back acoustic reimagining of "Candle In The Wind" with just Elton's lead vocal, Davey's acoustic guitar and Davey, Dee & Nigel on BV's.. simply stunning. I wish there were more alternate mixes like that on these surround mix discs, so many possibilities, alongside the originals of course.

 

There one different thing I noticed in the Bob Clearmountain 5.1 mix on the recent Legend - The Best Of Bob Marley and The Wailers 30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Blu-Ray Audio disc.

Buffalo Soldier has some backing vocals by the I-Threes during the intro that aren't on the original version (of Legend at least).

 

Let the flaming begin, but I feel that most surround music is an artificial, borderline gimmicky, experience. Seriously, when was the last time you were at a show and the backing vocalists were over your shoulder?

That said, I enjoy 5.1 music as an "alternate" experience, an approach to a mix that may feel different and yield interesting results.

Most times, I play the mix through a mixing board where I may freely isolate any discrete parts. Soloing up Elton's "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" vocal, for instance, is awesome. I can even hear a few punches and headphone leakage. Non-discrete 5.1 mixes are nice, too, but some of them offer a "peek behind the curtain" that is really nice.


Dan

 

No flaming at all. There are albums where I do want to be smack in the middle of all the action - DSOTM for instance, or some of the songs from Alan Parsons' On Air (DTS). But some recordings I don't want to be in the center of the stage, with musicians and vocalists all around me. My favorite surround recording for this type would be Frank Sinatra - Live at the Sands. The music and vocals are in front of you with just sonic reflections (is that a correct description?), behind you. Also sometimes behind you you're able to hear the rest of the audience, sometimes clearing their throat, or the sound of ice cubes clinking against the glass from the person over your left shoulder. Listening to this DVD-A makes me feel like I have the best seat in the house, in the audience, not on the stage.

 

Yep. They're quoting "In the Mood". That made me chuckle.

 

Ha! Me too. I'm happy that Greg Penny was not afraid to incorporate vocal and instrumental bits not found in the stereo masters. Some examples off the top of my head: guitar in "Where to Now St. Peter" intro, additional Mellotron in "We All Fall in Love Sometimes", backing vocals during the guitar solo in "Writing", an extra minute or so of jamming before the fade of "Razor Face".

 

Kantner and Slick's Sunfighter in quad is completely different!
Just found that out.

 

Yeah, for live recordings like concert DVDs, I'm happy for them to put them out with a surround mix and I'll occasionally play the surround mix but don't expect the same type of mix I like in my studio surround recordings. In those circumstances, like the one you outlined above, my preference and expectation is an attempt to replicate the live experience more fully through 5 speakers. It'd be weird to use live recordings in such a way that the singer was in the rear left channel and then walked around the room from speaker to speaker.

 

These are some of my favorites but have not picked up 5.1 V&M quite yet. BTW, any idea why the 5.1 comes with two discs for V&M? Can't think of another that does....

 

The DVD Audio "side" of Talking Heads "Remain in Light"...lots of cool stuff happening.

 

Goodbye Yellow Brick Road 5.1 (and stereo) is on 2 SACDs.

 

This is the first thing that came to my mind when opening this thread. It's fantastic and I don't understand why it wasn't on the original stereo mix.

 

I WANT THE COMPLETE EMERSON LAKE & PALMER output in uncompressed 5.1 surround
please, for I'm a blatant atheist who believes in everything concrete and nothing in the abstract.
Trilogy, great. Brain Salad Surgery with never before released stuff great, for all BSS releases have
had nothing but various garbage found elsewhere, costing me & many out here unnecessary money
via our not so necessary repurchases.... Take a look at my Springsteen 73-85 posting....for my keen
hearing has been crucified there....... And, bring on the Welcome Back My Friends in stereo and 5.1
surround, like it was supposed to be heard in surround sound back in 1974.........

 

I`m waiting for a 40 minute Number 9 from the beatles White Album remixed in 5.1!
I really think it would be cool.