Some advice for second system under 10k

Im currently building a second system, still in my main hifi room of 6x4 meters. My main system consist of nadm51 - densen b200/330 - neat mf5 - genesis g928 with all tchernov reference cables. The sound is dynamic, forward and powerful with very neutral and detailed mids. The bass is very clean and tight.

However, for my relax time, i want to make a system where i can just go to sleep and enjoy. Not too detailed, non forward, relaxing sound with good warm fat bass. Also euphonic colored mids that is sweet and warm. Basically the opposite of my current speakers
I wantt to try tubes, but i guess my neats are not suitable for tubes due to low sensitivity. So making a second system however in the same room.

Budget of 5k max, either for upgrades, or just a system consisting of amps and speakers (planning to use the same dac and cables)

Requirements

- not looking for extreme fidelity
-warm fat midbass
- colored, euphonic warm mids
-not bright sounding
- non forward sounding (the less forward the better)
-big soundstage
- forgiving of not too good recordings
- relaxing and sweet sounding

The sound im trying to mimic is of the senheisser orpheus instead of the stax009. The sony r10 instead of the hd800

Any advice is so much appreciated. I know to demo as many as possible, but some advice would be better before i travel to demo those items.

Thank you all

 

1 bump

 

Well, you could get an equalizer and shape the sound to your liking. Then you'd have much more freedom in choosing components. A used Audient ASP-231 would be just the ticket, IMO.

 

Yes, but most equalizers which don't add noise, or distortion are pricey beyond consumer budgets.

 

Well, the OP wants a rolled-off frequency response, and the simplest way to get that is to use an equalizer, rather than an equalizer disguised as an amp, preamp, or pair of speakers (not to mention cables). He's willing to spend $5k. I would guess something like this

http://tinyurl.com/q735b4e

would take care of the frequency response without notable noise or distortion, leaving him $3900 for amp and speakers. Since the warm frequency response is his main criterion, it seems sensible to me to get that in the most direct way possible.

Mike

 

EQ would be a choice...but would it be difficult when i have no experience in EQ whatsoeverv? or just get some spendor or harbeth

 

Harbeth and Spendor make some lovely speakers, indeed. I have a pair of P3ESR in my second system (reviewed briefly here under "P3ESR Impressions"). Whether they are colored depends on your point of view. On many classical recordings, they seem to me to be uncolored in the sense that they sound like real, unamplified music. This means they are somewhat warmer than the current fashion in speakers, so they may be right for your criteria. I still think that you should consider using an equalizer -- especially if you can get one on approval, meaning you can return it if you don't like it. You might be able to get a system that way that can suit your tastes exactly, instead of approximately.

Whatever path you take, I wish you good luck!

Mike

 

Have you tried using your Woo WA2 as a preamp? Might be worth a try to see if that gets you closer to what you're looking for.

Might try a Cavalli amp as a preamp. Cavalli amps smoothen the sound and are the opposite of forward. Do you know anyone with a Liquid Glass? Or someone getting the soon to be released Liquid Crimson? Might be worth a try if you can borrow a Cavalli. I don't know how that would work out with your system. But it could be interesting to try.

 

Actually did use the wa2 as preamp. The bass is indeed fatter sounding (very slight) but the mids are even more forward sounding. Making the mids over focused. Will get some knowledge on EQ. Never used before...

 

To make some things clear, i love the sound of my current setup just want some difference and a system to relax. For for serious critical listening, i love my system and would change anything about it

 

EQ isn't going to do the sorts of changes you are after. You may be able to EQ a particular recording to get what you want. But that would only work on that one recording. When you play a different recording you'd need to tweak the EQ and do some additional magic. And then on another recording you'd have to change the EQ and tweak. You'd end up remastering each recording you want to listen to. That's not a fun relaxed way to listen to music.

I mentioned using a headphone amp as a preamp because you seem to have a headphone itch. Getting a new headphone amp to use as a preamp might help scratch a headphone itch in addition to getting a smoother sound and setback soundstage for your speaker setup.

Headphone amps are typically more colored than stereo preamps. Especially hybrid or full tube headphone amps. Some select headphone amps manage to do a very setback soundstage. The Cavalli amps and the Eddie Current Balancing Act are some examples. Using an amp like that as a preamp might get you a setback sound with your speakers. I've heard a customized Cavalli Liquid Fire used as a preamp in a speaker setup (Magneplanar) and the setback smooth sound of the Liquid Fire did translate to speakers in that case. It's worth a shot to try if you have access to headphone amps like that or know people who have headphone gear like that.

Otherwise I'll defer to speaker experts for suggestions of preamp/amp/speaker combos that will do what you want.

 

the wooaudio wa2 is actually very forward sounding...Ill try to see if i can get someone to borrow me another headphone amp i can try near my place.

 

I realise your room is quite big but I always thought it was not a good idea to have idle speakers in a listening room as the drivers may resonate.

For relaxing I would assume you would turn the sound down. That in itself might make it more relaxing.

Am I right in guessing from your profile that you use your Mac Mini connected to the DAC?

I would agree that some sort of EQ would be worth trying. I'm not familiar with Mac Minis. Can you get EQ software onto this? If you can it surely it would be worth experimenting to see if you can get the relaxed sound you are after.

To make a less forward sound you can reduce an area around 4kHz (the 'presence hump'), for example. There's plenty of advice on the internet.

I use a Behringer DEQ2496 Equaliser. It sits between my CD Transport and DAC so operates only in digital. It costs around $300 I believe. It takes a bit to learn workings but just using the Graphic Equaliser on it shouldn't be so hard. It only uses XLR sockets for the ins and outs.

 

Quad 34/405 amps , LS35a . But in all honestly are you genuinely happy with the main system?

 

Leben CS 600 + Proac Response D2 or Spendor SA1 or LS 3/5a (second hand for all if possible). A lovely system I enjoying as I type, that fits all the criteria.

 

Yes, but -- and it's a big "but" -- what you say is true of *anything* that gives a warmer sound: it will sound better on some recordings than others, and recordings vary wildly in cleanliness and tonal balance. The advantage of an equalizer is that one has the possibility of adjusting it to suit a recording if desired. As Hipper said, a dip around 3 or 4 kHz will give noticeable ease of listening to many recordings. I would add, it also helps to make sure the region from 8 kHz on up doesn't have a rising frequency response (as many audiophile speakers do). That sort of response will emphasize detail but detract from relaxed listening and musicality, in my experience.

 

Nice, your second system will take the best part of 10K?! You have my undying envy.

 

EQ can fix or adjust the things you describe. But an EQ can't really change the character and smoothness of the sound. Which is a big part of what nieveulv is after. In his words, to be more like a Sony R10 rather than a Senn HD800. You can't give a HD800 the sonic character of a R10 using just EQ.

 

i solved my problems!! not fully but enough! i borrowed a set of tube preamp DIY(not high end) and it sounds exactly like my wa2, forward sounding and mid focused. So i swapped back my b200 preamp
Then my friend who borrowed me the preamp said "if you want a more laid back sound and not forward sounding, why dont u just sit further back???" tried that, it worked to my surprise. previously im sitting in a cardas style position equal distance to make a triangle. Sitting 45cm backward changes everything....smoother and less tiring. bass is also fatter although not as tight and punchy. hmmmm maybe this is the sound im looking for..will try some positioning of my listening position.
thanks for all the advice still tempted to get a second system though lol. Or use the budget to improve my existing setup

 

nieveulv, glad to hear that you found a solution.

 

Rega Brio-R at the center maybe? Nice warm almost-tubey solid state integrated amp. Retails for ~$900 so leaves plenty of budget for the rest of the system. Very plug-it-in-and-forget it kind of component, but in a good way.