Does judder make you shudder ? Hz -The Refresh Rate Thread -HZ

I have not personally tested every model available, but of the many I have calibrated and tested, the Kuros were the only ones that achieved that fluid film-like motion without introducing artifacts.
The one thing I have learned in my years as a video professional is that you can never assume anything, regardless of what manufacturers or reviewers claim. I always check and test any new display and/or system I encounter. Many times I am surprised, positively and negatively.

 

I can't do math this late at night. What I can tell you is there is a way to eliminate the duplicate field in 2:3 pulldown with 1080i 59.97 material, but the 240Hz interpolation mode is definitely evil. My gut instinct is just to keep hitting the buttons until I like what I see... so I think Harry is doing the right thing.

BTW, note that theaters routinely use a kind of interpolation by using 96Hz frames, just repeating each frame four times during that 24th of a second sequence, which helps eliminate apparent flicker. Film projectors did the same thing with a rotating shutter, so this is an old trick going back many decades. Without it, the 24fps flicker is very obvious.

Very wise words from TheAnswer above.

 

Yeah, it's different for film. The flicker is not an issue with proper 24fps display on LCD because when the screen doesn't change for those 5 frames (120hz non-interpolated mode), the image just stays as it is, so there is no flicker.

I agree, too, that you can't assume anything, which is why I'm careful to research a TV to make sure it properly supports what I want.

For both of my TVs, there are two settings related to refresh, Real Cinema and TruMotion. In order to get a proper 24fps display, you have to have Real Cinema set to "On" and TruMotion set to "Off." as well as having a source that supports 24fps output. TruMotion is the evil interpolation mode (whether it's 120 or 240hz). Real Cinema is the "hold a frame of 24fps material for 5 frames" mode. It works just fine on my TVs. In fact, that was the first thing I checked upon purchase. If they didn't do 24fps properly, they would've gone back to the store.

 

On my Sonys it is Motionflow-OFF and Cinemotion Auto2 for proper 24fps.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but playback 'frame-rate' should match image-capture 'frame-rate' exactly, or as closely as possible. All this 'motion-flow' shizznat on new TV's gives me the heebie-jeebies. And I think that most cinematographers would agree...

 

You're not wrong. The point being made is that there IS (on some TVs) a way to properly play back at 24fps. However, to do so a TV needs to support a refresh rate that is a multiple of 24 so that each frame can be held for the same number of cycles. It also needs to allow the disabling of Motionflow/TruMotion and whatever else it may be called.

 

I've found a good use for the Soap Opera Effect: movies based on soap operas! One of the odd things about HOUSE OF DARK SHADOWS and NIGHT OF DARK SHADOWS, the two films produced around the time of the original TV shows, was that they were on film. Suddenly, after years of watching the smooth motion of these characters on videotape on TV, we got to see them in 24 frames-per-second at the movies (and now Blu-ray). So...turn on the motionflows and the cinemotions and voila!...it looks like a familiar soap opera again!

This technique is also helpful with the 28 episodes in the full-series box that are now only available as kinescopes. These black and white, reduced-to-film episodes look a good bit better with the soap opera effect turned on.

Harry

 

I am thinking of getting my brother and sister-in-law a TV. Is it worth it spending extra for a 240 refresh rate, or is it not that important? This would be about a 40" set. It appears that most models available are 120.

 

240 will make no real-world difference over 120. It is marketing crap IMO. The TV makers use any trick to upsell you.

 

That's what I started to sense. Thank you for the reply.

 

^^Is that what I get for looking for a silver lining in a dark cloud?

I too find the Soap Opera effect to be offensive, but found a semi-amusing use for it. Soap opera movies!

Harry