Kiss:Dynasty (1979) Album/Tour: Decline Of A Band.

I just listened to this for the first time in a long time yesterday and what really stood out was the drums. I don't know how I didn't notice at the time that's it's not Peter, because it is really obvious. Things like the little fills going back into the verses on Hard Times...there's just no way that could ever be Peter.

 

Loved Dynasty right from the get go, and actually I love it even more today. I never understood the fan logic that a band that you fell in love with (due to a specific album) needs to continue to give you the same thing, or you walk. We've seen this with many bands actually, just when they start to grow or move into other territories, fans revolt. Think Metallica Black Album.....

I love every Kiss album, yes even The Elder. What I love most is that each album speaks to me and gives me something a little different. Why repeat the model of Alive, Destroyer or even Love Gun. They did it, they hit it out of the park, why do you need it again? Move on.

I really enjoy having multiple Kiss albums to pull that might speak to the mood I find myself in. One day it's Alive, the next it may be Unmasked, then perhaps Crazy Nights? How about Renvenge? It's all there to enjoy. I never really understood fans that kind of pick at things that an artist does, and leave the rest?

Dynasty kicks ass, and it wasn't a disco album, not in the least. It's rock and roll and there are some really great, strong tracks on there.

 

I really like IWMFLY, Sure Know Something, Charisma, and 2000 Man. Most of the rest sounds pretty weak to me now but I loved it all when it came out.


I saw them twice on the tour, MSG and New Haven. I'm sure it's because I was so young but they didn't seem to be declining. As far as I could tell they totally ruled.

 

Been into KISS for about 30 years, and still don't own Dynasty. Completely familiar with it though, listening to it on youtube right now. It's just not a good album. Unmasked and the Elder I love, Dynasty is just a straight up dud!

Barely two years removed from Shock Me, Rocket Ride and the solo album, Ace can't muster up any good songs of his own; though 2000 Man is cool. Though not classics, Ace's songs on Unmasked at least have a charm to them. Hard Times is bad and the best part of Save Your Love is Paul's background vocal at least making it seem like a cohesive band song.

Peter's song is awful and his inability to play on this album is an embarrassment!

I like X-Ray Eyes, but Charisma is bad.

Paul's worst side is over displayed on this record.

If I ever complete my KISS collection this will be the last one I buy. And I'll never buy Peter's solo album because my self loathing hasn't reached that level! Yet!!

 

Buy the solo albums on picture disc. That way you can hang them on the wall and not listen to them. They really do look cool.

 

I remember older kids liking KISS when I was 8 or 9, and I remember watching Phantom of the Park. As a regular watcher of Kroft Supershow, it was right up my alley. That said, I wasn't really into rock until I hit adolescence, and by then KISS' glory days were past. I was into Black Sabbath long before I started listening to KISS. My first KISS record was actually Animalize, which came out while I was in high school. I then sort of worked my way backward. Looking at it that way, I always thought Dynasty was a pretty good pop record and I did always like I Was Made For Loving You. While certainly the product of a band disintegrating, I don't think it was as detrimental to their fortunes as Phantom, the solo albums, and the one two punch of Unmasked and The Elder (even though I like The Elder).

 

You say that like it is a good thing....

I like Anton Fig's work on those albums, but it is a different band almost; other guys playing bass on some tracks. Peter was not the greatest drummer by any means but he did provide a unique feel to KISS, and Fig didn't try to imitate it, to his credit, but it wasn't the same.

 

I'm not saying it's a good thing at all. My point was that as a twelve year old KISS fanatic I had no idea that Peter wasn't on the album and now that seems funny to me because it is completely obvious.

 

I saw the Dynasty show in September at Nassau Coliseum. Judas Priest opened. I had a good time.

 

It wasn't a decline of the band. It was only the decline of the original line up. The band wouldn't decline until the decided to scrap the Revenge line up and become a nostalgia act. Virtually overnight they went from a still relevant band (Revenge was a big success) to a nostalgia band. I can't think of another band that killed themselves that way.

 

Revenge was NOT a big success. It was well-received by fans, but it barely went gold and spawned no hit singles. The band played to half-empty arenas in '92, and had trouble booking a US tour after that, hence the one-off appearances in '93-'94, and the return to South America and Australia. That's a sharp contrast to the reunion tour where they were doing 2, 3, 4 night stands at large arenas, and coming back and playing the same cities two or three times.

Having said that, it painted the band (no pun intended) into a corner that they were never able to get out of.

 

First concert I saw was KISS at the Tarrant County Convention Center in Ft. Worth, Texas, 1979.

I was never a big fan of Dynasty but it was the first time I had the opportunity to see my favorite band, so I went. Good show as I remember, but very loud (for a 12 year old). I think a band called Breathless opened, if I remember correctly. I remember some vendor guy kept going up and down the stairs on our row slobbering the phrase: Disco sucks, get your disco sucks pin here!

 

I would respectfully like to address this. As far as I was concerned, and I was 19 at the time of Dynasty, I couldn't get past IWMFLY. I'm sorry. I think I listened to that album once and put it away for years. I only remember really liking Magic Touch. Now, I like it better some 35 years later. Sure Know Something is a great song. I really loved the Unplugged version. But, I digress. It really had nothing to do, for me, with going away from what they were doing because they really didn't now that I give it a more critical listen. I can't sit through IWMFLY today when they play it live. It is a bathroom break song. For me, it kind of ended my love affair with KISS for awhile. I understand your comments about pulling something out different by them. I can honestly say I was never much into the non-makeup years. I enjoyed some of the singles, but had to go back recently to really listen and with some, even enjoy those albums. I hope I could at least give you my spin on Dynasty. And by the way, I wasn't thrilled with the four solo albums. I always thought of this time as the end of the KISS I knew. I know some might laugh because those who are ignorant of KISS history thinks everything they did was a big plan of Gene's for commercialization, which is a laugh. Up until that point, I didn't see it. Of course, I was younger and dumber then. Dynasty with the disco song and the 4 single solo albums screamed that to me as a fan then. I then took a break.

 

Commercially? Certainly not. The album barely sold and the accompanying tour was a money-loser.

It was a creative success, to be sure. After four subpar albums in a row, they came back in a big way with Revenge. Sadly, it was too little, too late for most audiences. Plus it dropped just as grunge was exploding, which made the album sound outdated and irrelevant even before it was released.

And it's too bad. What a great LP. Kulick and Singer were much tighter and creative performers than any other lead guitarist/drummer combo they'd ever had (followed by Vincent/Carr). And I say this as a ridiculous Ace fan...

 

Back to the topic at hand: I think if you listen to Rock and Roll Over and Dynasty back to back, Dynasty holds up a *lot* better in terms of songwriting, production, and musicianship.

 

I saw them on that tour. I was fifteen and got my dad to take me. There were a lot of kids with mom and dad there. I enjoyed it. My first Kiss LP was Rock And Roll Over, then I bought Destroyer. I remember the older Kiss fans making fun of me and mocking Peter Criss singing Beth. They said Destroyer was their "sell out," Rock And Roll Over sucked and that "Alive" was the true Kiss.

 

The album hit number 6 on the Billboard 200 and number 10 in the UK. Their first top 10 album since Dynasty. As far as singles go:

God Gave Rock and Roll To You II:
US: 21
UK: 4

Domino
US: 26

I Just Wanna
US: 34

That's a big success. It wasn't "most successful album of the 90s" sized success but it still a big success regardless. It was a bigger success than Paul McCartney's "Off the Ground" that came out under a year later. Certainly the reunion was a bigger crowd draw, nostalgia is quite appealing, but it essentially ended their career as a relevant, active band and they seemed tired with less energy and excitement during the reunion era than during the Revenge era. Compare concert footage. The Revenge line-up wiped the floor with the reunion line up in the 90s.

 

Relevance doesn't keep the mansions running. The reunion was always inevitable. It's just not possible to have that card in your back pocket and not play it.

 

Those US chart placings are not for Billboard's Top 200. Having a #21 placing on the "Hot Mainstream Rock Chart" is NOT the same thing as having a single that "charted at #21". Kiss did not have any Top 40 hits from Revenge in the US.

The album sold poorly by Kiss standards. It hit #6 in its first week, but disappeared from the charts after that -- which tells you that the diehards went out and bought it the first day. And that was that.

"God Gave Rock And Roll To You" was out almost a full year before the album, as a single from the "Bill & Ted" movie. A successful track in the UK for sure -- but did nothing on the Billboard Top 200. Those singles were dead in the water in the US. Plain and simple. And I'm a fan of the record, don't get me wrong -- but I stood at the Worcester Centrum in October '92 as they played to 60% capacity. The band was in a commercial slump at the time, even if the material was good. I won't argue that they weren't a much more energized band at the time -- and I won't argue that trading in Singer for Criss was a great move for the band's overall sound -- but I know for a fact that you're way off base in your belief that Revenge was a success.

 

If we did a poll, I'd bet Kiss accounts for more SHF "first concerts ever" than any other act!

 

I have all the KISS albums from the first one through Asylum. Dynasty is the one I listen to the most.

 

Although I don't think it's as good as RNRO or Love Gun it's still pretty good. What hurts it the most is that horrible thin production. In other words...it has no balls.

 

Why does it need to have balls?

 

I think this is the best Kiss album to feature all 4 (even if minimally) original band members.

 

Balls was about all they had going for them at the time. Gene couldn't write a tune to save his ass at this point. Peter wasn't contributing much. Ace wasn't strong enough to carry the load. Paul sounds better when he sounds like he has balls. Now you know.