Help An Audio Hardware Newb

I don't know where to start. I'm a 32 year old who knows next to nothing about audio hardware. I get quickly confused about wattage, pre-amps, integrated amps, phono stages, solid state, tubes etc. I live in a small NYC apartment with about 700 sq ft, so I don't have a lot of space for sound. But I love music and listening to vinyl, and own about 1000+ records.

I have about $1000 dollars to upgrade my current system, which is a hodgepodge of crap. I currently own :

• Audio-Technica AT-PL 120 Direct-Drive Turntable
• Teac LS-EX3 60 Watt 2-Way Bookshelf Speakers
• Bose Acoustimass 3 Series II Powered Stereo Subwoofer (which I found on the street and am using as an amp).

I'm really not sure which piece I should upgrade, or what I'll get the most (discernable!) value for my investment in. Will a nice vintage solid state amp make much of a difference when I'm listening through 60 watt bookshelf speakers? How about a cheap chinese tube amp (which is about all I can afford?). Will upgrading my speakers even matter if I'm listening in a tiny space? Should I try to upgrade both at once on a budget, or upgrade one piece and wait a year until I have more money to spend? Will upgrading my turntable even matter at this point?

Any advice at all would be greatly appreciated. Also, if there is a jargon-free audio hardware primer for idiots (or kids who grew up in the CD era) out there on the web, I'd love to hear about it it. : )

 

If that is all of the equipment you own then I am missing your phono pre-amp. Where is that?

 

The Audio-Technica AT-PL120 has an internal stereo phono pre-amp. Is that bad?

 

Get a VPI Nomad and some Grado headphones. Done. Enjoy...

 

No, not at all. I just didn't know that.

 

First thing I would do is ditch the Bose for a real amp. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I have to assume it is specially tuned to work with the Bose satellite speakers, so there's no way you are hearing what your speakers actually sound like.

 

I believe that you are right. A lot of Bose electronics have built-in eq curves that are tuned specifically to their speakers.

 

Considering the size of your dwelling and assuming that you're in close proximity to other tenants within the same building, I'd spend the $1,000 on the following:

NAD C316BEE Integrated Amp - It sells for CDN$399 here; I don't know the US prices in NY but the amp could be cheaper there.

Go for an integrated amp; it's simpler to set up, use, and add components to.
http://nadelectronics.com/products/...Stereo-Integrated-Amplifier#heading-downloads

What's left of your $1K can be spent on a turntable upgrade, one with a better cartridge. You might have to buy a pre-amp, though, so be prepared for that.

Will you be able to play at loud volumes without incurring the ire of your neighbors or having an NY cop show up at your door?
If not, then you just need the "right size" amp for your dwelling, enough to allow you to enjoy your vinyl collection and keep the other tenants minding their own business.

These are just my suggestions and other forum members might not agree, but that's my 2-cents' suggestion. Good luck with your search.
.

 

Rega Brio R integrated amp. Next upgrade: Rega RP3 Future upgrade: Rega RS1. Vinyl excellence on a budget.

The Rega Brio R has a nice phono preamp so you would turn off your TTs internal phono pre.

 

Speaking as the Official Forum Po' Boy Cheapskate...

$1000 is not a big budget. Is that the absolute high-end allotment for this upgrade, or could you put aside another $1000 in a year or so? And maybe another 1K the year after?

In either event, you'll need to spend carefully.

The other discussion to have includes the neighbor factor mentioned above, and what type of music you enjoy. Depending on those, most all small speakers beg for a subwoofer for proper bass. The neighbor situation may nix that; bass travels through the walls, period. The headphone suggestion above is worth considering, though I greatly prefer speakers performing in a room-space.

You will certainly get conflicting responses here. Many will be adamantly Source-First, and others Speakers-First. I'm the latter, but even if I wasn't, considering the budget, your existing TT+phono pre is a great value (unless it actually sounds bad).

Don't kid yourself. Vinyl acquisition, equipment and upkeep is EXPENSIVE. Even when in entry-level mode.

Regardless, I'd say speakers first, and maybe amp at the same time. I think you'll experience a bigger improvement immediately, moreso than with a new TT/pre.

And now, here come many counterpoints.

 

I think he needs an intergraded or receiver, the box he is using is not a good substitute. Or buy a good pair of powered monitors, Audio Engine or Emotiva. He could still use the pre in the TT to make line level. With the Rega kit I'm thinking upgrade path.

 

Nice record collection!

The sub box you're using is the most obvious thing to upgrade. $1000 is a lot IMO. Your turntable is competent and is the last thing to upgrade. Given your budget I'd sink $800 into a receiver and speakers, and $200 on a cartridge with a line contact stylus like an Audio Technica 440MLa for your turntable. Get an additional headshell and swap out the headshell/cartridge that you have now for beat up records or 45s and use the 440 for good clean vinyl. Thank goodness you're not spinning on some crappy Crosley or cheaper turntable.

I'd look for a decent receiver, you don't need to spend much. Those Bose boxes do all kinds of weird equalization and crossover stuff inside them to accommodate the specific speakers that they are designed for. You are NOT getting the best that those little speakers have to offer. Specifically I would recommend the ONKYO TX-8050 receiver. You didn't mention any sources other than vinyl. I assume you're using a computer or something for CDs and/or music files. The Onkyo should be good for that. Add a CD / DVD player from a thrift store for under $20 for CD capability and connect it through a digital cable to the receiver.

I'd keep the little Bose sub in the mix if I were you, connected to a proper subwoofer output from a receiver or integrated amp. I recommend that you make sure the receiver or integrated amp that you buy has a subwoofer output and connect using that. Just to add a little boom to your bookshelf speakers. Get your sub on the floor. Get the speakers out of the bookshelves and onto proper stands or on top of the bookshelf. Most speakers will sound poor when they are boxed in like that.

Speakers are tough - you can go nuts on them. The ones you have look nice and probably sound pretty good. Find a stereo store and listen to some options, look on your local craigslist.

 

Thanks for the advice everyone! It sounds like the integrated receiver makes the most sense as the first step, as I'd like to continue to listen to music in the open air. I always suspected the BOSE set-up was super dodgy, so it makes sense to get something better first. Then speakers? The neighbor situation isn't too bad, but I do have to watch my volume level sometimes : )

As for the rest of my set-up, I run digital music out of my computer through an Apogee One, then through the BOSE, then through the speakers. That VPI Nomad looks sweet, but how much will I really notice the difference? I don't have Grados, but I do have a decent pair of Audio Technica ATH-M50 headphones - however I prefer open air listening most of the time. Also the cartridge I'm using with the Audio Technica is currently a Shure M97xE.

I will have an opportunity to upgrade in next year, and probably the year after that - so I don't want to be too hasty. : )

 

You could kind of take two paths -- you could just spend the $1K now to get the best analog playback you can for that money, or you could take the first step in a longer upgrade path by getting one much better component now with the plan that it's the first step along the path of upgrading everything.

The first thing I'd recommend is deciding which approach to take. After you decide that then there's a whole other set of decisions -- buying new vs. buying used, for example. But it's still two very different ways to go.

The second thing I'd do -- and it might not be what you want to hear -- is to set up the system you have now so you can actually hear it properly at its best. Proper set up -- getting the speakers out into the room with the listening position at the one point of an equilateral triangle, and the each speaker the same distance from a side wall as the other with and equal path of reflected sound to the listening position; getting the turntable on to a isolated, leveled platform, etc: proper setup often makes a bigger difference than equipment changes. Having lived in NY all my life I know the challenges of making everything work in a 700 square foot living space, but little speakers on those bookshelves, one tucked into a corner, another not....even with the modest gear you have you can't really hear it going what it can do or what it's supposed to do.

I don't know what's out there on the Net as a kind of hifi primer. In the old days one book people often started with was Laura Dearborn's book Good Sound (it dates from the days of vinyl so good turntable setup tips). As I recall, having not read it in 20+ years, there's a lot of opinion in there in addition to fact, and 20 year old conventional audiophile wisdom, but I think it also might have a kind of orderly introduction for someone jumping in from a standing start. It's OOP but there are used copies available via Amazon for, literally, a coupla bucks. I'm not saying you should take it as gospel by a long shot, but it might be a helpful starting point. When it comes to setup some people seem to like Jim Smith's Get Better Sound. I haven't read it so I have no personal opinion, but learning what's best in the way of setup is I think the first most important thing to learn. I also haven't read Robert Harley's books and I hope you take everything everyone, including me, has to say with a grain of salt, but he does have a beginner's book: Introductory Guide to High Performance Audio Systems that might be helpful.

 

Do you know how old your stylus/cartridge are? If the stylus is worn, it can damage your LPs, so I suggest having it checked by a dealer or just replaced unless you know its history.

I upgraded my system in stages, for economic reasons. (That method just might be the most entertaining way, too!) My front room is pretty small at 11' X 11' (opens into another room at the end, so it isn't a square room). I would upgrade the speakers last, if you decide to do it in stages. I don't think you need a subwoofer, but you do already have one, so...

You could try an inexpensive tube (valve) amp. I have a small FatMan 25w headphone amp that can power speakers nicely as well and has a smooth, warm, yet powerful sound. I used it as my main amp for about a year, then got a Primaluna. I suggest models from HiFi Man (quite a few US distributors) or Dared Audio, which are about $400-$500 new. Quinpu has a couple of well-regarded amps under $300 new (Amazon & AudioAdvisor have them). Even if the amps only output 10w or so, they should drive your current speakers well.

 

+1 on the Rega kit, try to stretch a bit on your budget or consider buying used:

(a) Rega Brio-R Integrated Amplifier. New = $895 | Used = $600 (approx.),
(b) Rega RS1 Speakers. New = $795 | Used = $500 (approx.),
(c) upgrade your table as funds permit.

The Rega Brio-R is a 50 watt class A/B integrated amp with a really good built-in phono stage and sounds excellent. It's one of the best bang for the buck pieces of hi-fi equipment that I know of.

You could also go tubes, but it would cost a little more:

(a) Decware Super Zen. New = $895 | Used = $550 (approx.)
(b) Omega Super 3i Speakers. New = $595 | Used = $395 (approx.)
(c) You would use the phono stage on your turntable at first and then eventually upgrade the table and get a better phono stage as funds permit.

The Decware Super Zen is a 2 watt class A, single ended triode circuit amp with 2 inputs and volume control, so you would need efficient speakers and the Omega Super 3i fit the bill as they are very efficient at 94.5dB @ 8 ohms. This would be a really beautiful and revealing system.

 

You read my mind. Haven't tried the phono inputs from the Onkyo receiver but all its connectivity is so complete! I would keep that in mind for visiting friends (digital listeners). Some people in here is not impressed with the phono stage but they still like it. This Onkyo receiver will blow away that little Bose amp, nevertheless.

Also, this guy has a nice budget, he could even buy a great higher end integrated amp like the Yamaha A-S701 ($899) or the mid-priced Onkyo A-9050 ($499). The Yamaha one has more power but, if you don't need that much, the Onkyo A-9050 is perfect for those speakers (and both amps have digital inputs too).

Mmm, however, I don't have any experience with vinyl, so, you better listen to the others.

From my point of view, the amp will be the bigger improvement and it will reveal the potential of your turntable and speakers (it happened to me with my Onkyo receiver powering some old Sony speakers I had lying around).

Just my 2 cents.

 

You seriously need an integrated amp first. Buying used will get you more, so look on Audiogon, maybe even eBay. You should be able to find an older Musical Fidelity in your price range and definitely something like a Marantz PM 8004, which also has a phono stage. The second thing you need are better speakers, so take whatever, if any, is left and start saving for a pair. Do the speakers have to fit in your shelving unit? If so, what is the size of the opening?

 

Consider active speakers. AVI has their DM5 at £699 plus shipping. Check their website. Your turntable plugs straight in.

 

Product details here :-

http://www.avihifi.co.uk/products.html#

 

Depending on your room/seating arrangement, as someone possibly said, your present sound (and even after some upgrades) could be improved with setup change. I think the bookshelf is "OK" for the moment, but move the right hand speaker more right AT LEAST a couple of feet (or slots in your bookcase) if at all possible, so they are 5 or 6 feet apart. Sit in a chair facing the speakers from about 6 feet away, and centered between (and facing) the speakers, which should also be at 'ear height'. Angle both speakers toward your head, possibly to the point of pointing straight at your head (but likely not 'crossing' in front of you).

Play some music. The main singer on most songs is right in the center, with the drums and bass mostly centered as well. If things are set up correctly and your gear 'supports' it, you may hear a nice image of a drum kit, where the image is spread L-R a bit and the sounds move across as the drummer hits various drums and cymbals. Some other instruments/backing vocals/percussion will likely come from other spaces in the mix from L to R and front to back. On better systems/setups you can hear variations in depth (drums are further 'back' in the mix, guitars etc. can be placed up front or further back, etc.).

If you do hear a spread in width as I'm describing, and it's possible, move the right speaker even further out (making the speakers 7' apart or something). Keep moving (as you desire) until the center image starts getting 'diffuse' or a 'hole' in the sound develops (then move the speaker a bit closer to the other). This will give you (IMO) the nicest stereo image you can get. Sometimes moving speakers a little closer together (than the 'absolute max') can give you a bit more depth, but experiment with this and listening distance and 'toe in' (angle of the speakers) until the sound/imaging gets 'as good as it can'.

I don't know about 'timbre' and etc. with these particular speakers/amp, but tiny speakers can 'throw' a really good soundstage with lots of nice depth. Good luck in your path to audio nirvana! and of course, 'audiophilia nervosa' ...

 

Also, I'm impressed by your ingenuity - aside the possible 'EQ' that Bose does in the speaker outputs for their own little cube speakers (which MAY actually be a good thing here if it gives a bit of 'loudness contour' (boost in bass and treble)) to the main speakers, this is a pretty darn cool arrangement.

I'd suggest (especially if you hear sound coming from the Subwoofer itself) moving the sub so it's between the speakers, and maybe nearer the floor? but possibly higher (between the floor and ear/speaker height) would be OK. You will probably have to get some longer interconnects to connect the turntable and woofer ... actually if you do hear sort of loud bass coming from the sub, it's probably 'rattling' your turntable, so should be moved.

Seems like the sub is a bit 'wide' to fit in a cubicle. It's probably OK to 'angle' it so it fits, but you can still reach the volume, bass, and treble controls. The sound that comes out of the sub will just rattle around in the cubicle a bit and come out. Good idea to let the main speakers 'hang out' a little as this will minimize their sound bouncing off the front/edges of the cubicle. Records and books (especially if they're different 'thicknesses') actually make good 'absorbers/diffusers' and angling the speakers towards your head will help in this regard (acoustic 'treatment' of the listening space) as well.

Sound from the subwoofer if it's 'set' properly in volume and crossover point compared to the main speakers (both of which you may not/do not have any real control over) will seem to just 'be there'. Low bass sounds are not 'directional' so the sound should just seem to be there without you 'hearing' sound from the woofer itself. I imagine the crossover is pretty high in frequency, so also imagine you can hear music (along with bass sounds) coming from the sub. Since the sub output itself is likely mono, placing it between the speakers will minimize the 'damage' it can do to the imaging. It could also sort of act like a 'center channel' ... well, that may be a stretch! and hopefully that itself won't smear the imaging too much.

If you don't hear 'anything' coming from the sub, don't worry about it, it still seems to be working as an amp for the main speakers. Also play with the bass and treble controls to see what sounds you like best. If you're like most audiophiles, you'll want pretty much an 'even' response with no booming bass nor high end 'sizzle'. See if acoustic guitars, drums, etc. sound 'real' or not and adjust to taste.

 

keep it simple and new
http://www.needledoctor.com/Pro-Ject-Debut-Carbon-in-White?sc=2&category=46
http://www.needledoctor.com/Marantz-PM5004-Integrated-Amp?sc=2&category=271
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-Pe...22319100&sr=1-92&keywords=polk+audio+speakers

 

Then ignore the advice I gave about a new cartridge!