Leben cs300xs & Integrated amp demos: to tube or not to tube?

raferx · Jan 29, 2015

Radiotron said: ↑

I've since switched to a Leben CS-300XS. Works great with the 30.1 (no matter what Alan Shaw may think )
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Yeah, the reason I asked is that it's 12 WPC, (close to my 10 WPC Audio Note amp), and I re-read the 6Moons review of the M30.1 and they recommend the Leben 300 for powering them:
"Any version of the CS300 will be spot on... I simply mentioned [amps] I personally know to be sure things."

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/harbeth5/4.html

Radiotron · Jan 29, 2015

For the record, the CS-300XS is 15 wpc whereas the CS300 (discontinued) was 12 wpc.

beowulf · Jan 29, 2015

Radiotron said: ↑

I've since switched to a Leben CS-300XS. Works great with the 30.1 (no matter what Alan Shaw may think )
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Nice! I don't know if you have ever been to "Jeff's Place" but he has some great write ups in regards to the Leben/Harbeth pairing. IMO the guy has some great ears and genuinely interesting articles. If you dig deep enough over there he does some great comparisons to vintage McIntosh gear and Shindo/Leben as well.

Radiotron · Jan 29, 2015

beowulf said: ↑

Nice! I don't know if you have ever been to "Jeff's Place" but he has some great write ups in regards to the Leben/Harbeth pairing. IMO the guy has some great ears and genuinely interesting articles. If you dig deep enough over there he does some great comparisons to vintage McIntosh gear and Shindo/Leben as well.
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His piece in Positive Feedback is a classic. Jeff Day is the best ambassador Leben never had.

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue43/leben.htm

Pomodori · Dec 15, 2015

Campbell Saddler said: ↑

I have a CS300XS but would echo the others' comments about adequate power (I use them with 90.5 dB DeVore Fidelity Gibbon 88 speakers).

In researching the Leben, I read through the massive CS300XS thread at Head-Fi, some posts at Harbeth User Group, and as many online reviews as possible. My decision, though, was different from your decision since I was considering new speakers at the same time. I eventually chose the Leben/DeVore combination because I'd be using them a smaller room (13.75 feet by 13.75 feet), I already had a sub (REL T2) to cover for any lack of bass, and figured my past volume levels wouldn't strain them too much.

My impressions so far after 3 months of use:

-The Leben replaced a 100 watt into 4 ohm McIntosh receiver (MAC 4100). I did try the CS300XS with my old speakers (Epos ELS-303--87dB sensitivity--4 ohms) before the DeVores arrived and found the soundstage was wider with a bit more clarity [this impression was with the sub in place as before and stock tubes in the Leben]. The CS300XS does have an 8 ohm/6 ohm/4 ohm output control in the back for different speaker impedances.

-After replacing the Epos speakers with the DeVores, the soundstage and imaging with the Leben went to another level: horizontally (and depending on the mix/mastering) some instruments sounded like they were from surround speakers, while the front-to-back layering was the clearest I've been able to spot instruments (for instance, on Grant Green's Matador, Elvin Jones' drums were more in the rear of the right side, while Billy Higgins' drums on Hank Mobley's Far Away Lands was more upfront). The Leben/DeVore combination has given my old Rega Apollo CD player and P25 turntable a new lease on life. However...

-With the stock tubes in place, I felt that too many recordings had a bit of harshness or glare. I have since changed the driver tubes and power tubes and found that changing the driver tubes is probably more important. The combinations I've enjoyed the most:

*My dealer recommended the reissue Gold Lion 12AX7/ECC 83/ gold pins for the driver tubes and New Old Stock Mullard EL84s for power tubes. I currently use this combination and find it's the best balance of strong bass, slightly warm tone, and open mids/highs.

*Driver: Sylvania Triple Mica Black Plate 5751, Power: Tungsram E84L Similar tone to the Gold Lion/Mullard combination but bass was stronger and imaging more focused. I
have not yet tried the Sylvanias with the Mullards.

*Driver: reissue Gold Lion 12AX7, Power: Amperex D-Getter EL84 Best mids/highs, but slightly weaker bass performance.

-Conclusion about the Leben, tube rolling, and transparency: you can tailor the sound greatly through tube rolling, and if pressed, you could probably replace the stock Sovtek driver tubes with reissue Gold Lions and get decent performance just from that one change.

-Depending on the types of music you enjoy, the Leben may be enough power for your M 30.1s. It could probably do well enough on jazz without a sub or the bass boost feature set to +3 dB, but since I also run it with hip hop, dub reggae, and metal, I find myself either using the bass boost or turning on my REL T2 with the Leben. The setup gets loud enough for me around 10 o' clock on the volume control.

-I think Art Dudley articulated what I have experienced with the CS300XS in his review of the original CS300:

-In conclusion, I think if you're considering the CS300XS in addition to the Sugden, an in-store demo with your speakers or ideally a home demo would let you know if the Leben could handle your power needs. If you find the sound a bit on the bright/harsh side, I would attribute that brightness/harshness to the stock tubes moreso than the unit itself.

Good luck with your search
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Wish I had read this before. I've had the 300XS for a few years and just now got around to changing the driver tubes. When I first bought the unit I swapped the EL84s for NOS Phillips; the sound got a bit warmer but the real change came a week ago when I swapped the driver tubes for some NOS Mullard 12AX7A and the unit came to life...the harshness/brightness is gone and the soundstage opened up. It's a different amp.

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Leben cs300xs & Integrated amp demos: to tube or not to tube?

raferx Forum Resident Thread Starter

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Leben cs300xs & Integrated amp demos: to tube or not to tube?

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