Wasapi

So I have a NEW quandary. I got Wasapi downloaded. Got it set up in (push) mode but it just doesn't have the sound I think it should have. I have my Fiio E09K amp hooked up via analog out with my cable receiver. I have the music choice channels running thru it for doing burn in with my new cans. The sound thru THAT sounds really VERY nice. Full, vibrant, detailed and articulate. Very pleasing. Yet playing my music files(from my computer)with Foobar2k (thru the digital USB connection) to my Headroom Dac/Amp is just missing something. The richness and warmth of sound is not there. It's just sounds 'thinnner' than it should. Sounds subdued and distant . Any idea what I need to do? Also, since I installed Wasapi and engaged it, I can no longer play 24bit music files. only 16. If I try to change it in the drop down box in the middle of the output section(for Wasapi) it won't allow me to change it to 24bit. Getting really bummed and frustrated here. ANY help you can give would be really really appreciated. Joe

 

It's this amp/dac . http://www.amazon.com/HeadRoom-Ultr...14&sr=8-1&keywords=headroom ultra desktop dac I will try connecting via coax or optic and see if it works. My headroom amp isn't listed under device. Just USB Codec. When I connect to the amp/dac with my coax it lists the ASUS S/Pdif bypass. Headroom amp/dac is not one of the choices.All my volumes are at 100% and I set my Windows sound device setting for 'no sounds'.
I have my cd player connected digitally(optic) to my amp/dac and the sound is the same so Im kind of bummed. I was hoping there would be a discernible difference but... there isn't. I'm encouraged that the sound is better from the Fiio09K amp because at least I KNOW the cans CAN sound better but...... why can't I get this quality of sound with my desktop set up? It's head scratcher.

 

What exactly is Wasapi?

 

Try "pull" mode through WASAPI instead, or try ASIO?

 

It's what you put on your sushi.

 

Your Headroom amp/DAC is from the dark ages of USB audio. I'm pretty sure that it only supports 16-bit 44.1 kHz over USB. It won't do 24-bit over USB. That was normal back then.

If you want to use the USB connection you'll need to have Foobar (or JRiver, or any other player) resample and conver everything to 16/44.1. Foobar can be configured to do that.

WASAPI is a special mode that does bit-perfect. One of the side-effects of being bit-perfect is that it won't silently convert your audio to 16/44.1 for you. You need to send it audio data at a bit depth and sample rate that it supports.

The dirty secret is that how you've been playing audio to your Headroom DAC has been silently resampling and converting everything to 16/44.1 behind your back. That's one of the "benefits" of DirectSound playback in Windows. And a big reason why people opt to use WASAPI or ASIO so they can avoid having things silently converted behind their back.

The solution for you will be to use a USB to SPDIF converter. Your DAC has both optical and coax SPDIF inputs. You'll connect a USB to SPDIF converter to either the coax or optical input on the DAC and you'll get to have 24/96 or possibly even 24/192 support.

There's a variety of USB to SPDIF converters available. I'm not an expert in this so don't know what specific ones to suggest. My guess is that you should be able to find a good one that supports up to 24/96 for around $100. Good ones that support up to 24/192 are going to cost more.

Here's the Music Direct shopping page for USB to coax converters
http://www.musicdirect.com/c-705-USB-to-Coax-Adapters.aspx
That will give you a start. They don't have a big selection. There's more options out there than what they list.

 

Or another option for you. Instead of using the internal DAC in the amp use an external DAC. DACs have gotten better. And the cost of a modern DAC that supports USB and sounds better than the in the Headroom amp will be about the cost of a USB to SPDIF converter.

An inexpensive modern DAC would be the Schiit Modi 2.
Modi 2 does 24/96 over USB and is $99
Modi 2 Uber does up to 24/192 over USB and is $149
http://schiit.com/products/modi-2

 

I am going to assume that WASAPI is a driver or software pkg that uses the windows API and directX jointly or piggy back with the sound card DAC?

 

WASAPI is an a Windows API that makes it possible for applications to talk directly to the audio drivers. Bypassing the windows audio mixer and other things. The Well-Tempered Computer site has a good explanation: http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/KB/WASAPI.htm

WASAPI exclusive mode is what makes it good. The application (like Foobar) gets exclusive access to the audio device (DAC). Which means the application can set and change the bit-depth and sample-rate the audio device is set for, and lock out any other applications from messing with the audio device. This means that if you play a 16/44.1 file the DAC will be set for 16/44.1. If the next track is 24/88.2 the DAC will get set to play at 24/88.2. The application (Foobar) gets to control that.

 

thanks appreciate the info now not so confused

 

joeybgood, does your computer have an optical or coaxial digital output? Maybe the digital inputs on your HeadRoom DAC are not limited in the same way the USB input is. It might be worth a try.

BTW, I'm using this device for going from USB to coaxial: M2Tech HiFace Two



But I guess there are less expensive solutions out there.

 

Yes... I have a digital coax S/Pdif " pass-thru" out from my ASUS soundcard so I connected it to the coax in on my amp/dac. It now recognizes all the 24 bit files. So I should be ok.. yes? There should be no need for a USB to S/PDiF converter if I am connected this way. Yes? OR is it still secretly converting it to 16/44.1? Either way, do you feel that I should get a Modi and bypass the internal DAC of my Headroom Ultra as it is better sounding? Kind of a bummer. The Headroom Ultra is rather pricey amp/dac and only 2+ years old. how quickly things become "outdated" heavy sigh.

 

Thanks Ham Sandwich... Yes... I have a digital coax S/Pdif " pass-thru" out from my ASUS soundcard so I connected it to the coax in on my amp/dac. It now recognizes all the 24 bit files. So I should be ok.. yes? There should be no need for a USB to S/PDiF converter if I am connected this way. Yes? OR is it still secretly converting it to 16/44.1? Either way, do you feel that I should get a Modi and bypass the internal DAC of my Headroom Ultra as it is better sounding? Kind of a bummer. The Headroom Ultra is rather pricey amp/dac and only 2+ years old. how quickly things become "outdated" heavy sigh.

 

Yes, this should be the way to go. Of course you now have to select the ASUS soundcard in WASAPI mode in Foobar's output settings. If you do and it still does 24 bit, everything should be fine. You might still be limited to 24 bit/96 khz, though, since few older DACs can handle 192 khz. I have so few 24/192 files, that I can live with this quite easily.

 

Thanks much!... One other annoying glitch that I've encountered with Foobar.. During playback, when one song finishes and advances to the next track, instead of there being the usual brief break/pause between tracks, about 1 sec into the next track it drops out/pauses then continues with that track. Reallllllllly annoying!!(as I'm sure you'd agree) what the heck do I need to do to remedy that?

 

Because even though I dropped a few bucks on my used Headroom Ultra Amp/Dac(and I thought I was getting a nice higher end/quality DAC) I want the best sound that I can get out of my cans. If a $150 Schiit Uber is going to give me noticeably better sound then I definitely want to do that. ya know what I mean?

 

Try setting the "latency" to a higher value. I'm on my pad right now and can't look into the Foobar settings, but it should be somewhere in the playback settings.

 

Did you buy it new 2 years ago? The version of the DAC portion of the amp that I'm thinking of is more of a 2005 vintage. A decade old. The USB interface back then wasn't as capable as what we have now. USB inputs that could only do 16/44.1 or up to 16/48 were common back then.

If your Headroom amp/DAC is more recent then it might have an updated DAC module and be more capable than the old 2005 era designs. I can't recall if Headroom did an update for their Max DAC module or not.

In any event, the reason the amp was expensive and worth the money is because of the amplifier section. It's a very good amp. That's the expensive part. The included DAC is somewhat a convenience feature.

 

No.. I just purchased it on Ebay from a couple who purchased it new in 2012. I believe that may be the year they stopped making amps and dacs. This DAC could not process anything 24 bit in USB mode. I connected it via digital coax and it now plays 24bit. SO,,, if it doesn't recognize 24 bit in USB mode, is it probably safe to say that it's the same DAC technology as they used back in 2005? I mean,,, if they HAD updated it, wouldn't you think they would upgrade it read 24bit in 2012?

 

If they haven't updated their DAC, then I would guess you would recommend picking up the Schiit Uber or another newer and better external DAC?

 

Are you referring to the playback section under Preferences? where you have 'output' and 'DSP manager"?

 

Yes, File | Preferences | Playback | Output, you'll find Buffer Length. Move the slider up or down to experiment to see what sounds best to you.

 

cool. yes.. I've been experimented a bit with it but there is SUCH a wide range. Any thoughts on what a, more or less , norm setting tends to be?

 

I have mine set at 500ms (lower is better so long as it doesn't cause any audible glitches).

 

Using the coax SPDIF pass-thu output on your ASUS soundcard is also a viable option. I should have mentioned that as an option, but forgot. Cause many Windows computers don't have a coax or optical SPDIF output.

The SPDIF output on the ASUS soundcard will let you do 24 bit-output. And will support 96 kHz samplerates, and possibly as high as 192 kHz. You'll have to experiment to see if it works at 192 kHz without problems.

There are some potential issues when using SPDIF input into a DAC. If the SPDIF input gets interrupted when the player goes from one track to the next the DAC may see that as an interruption and see that as a need to attempt to resync to the input data. Which will cause a gap or break in playback. It's possible that is what you're experiencing.

First though is to make sure that you are playing gaplessly from Foobar. And that you have Foobar set correctly to play bit-perfect using WASAPI.

In Foobar go to File >> Preferences >> Playback >> Output
For device select WASAPI (event) mode for your ASUS. If the ASUS has a special output for digital out (SPDIF) then select that.
Set the default buffer length for now
Output format is likely to be 24-bit

Now check the DSP Manager settings
File >> Preferences >> Playback >> DSP Manager
Make sure there are no DSPs active, especially resampling

Now try playing some music. Try 16/44.1 first. Then some 24/96. Then 24/192. See if everything works. Make sure track changes work without added gaps.

If there are gaps or other problems there are some additional tricks to try.
Try WASAPI (push) mode instead of (event) mode.
Try shorter buffer lengths.
In Advanced >> Playback >> WASAPI there are some additional settings. You can change those, but make a note of what they were set at as the default so you can change them back. Try setting "high worker process priority". You can also try increasing the hardware buffer. But again, make a note about what the default buffer settings were at so you can change back.

If all this doesn't work you may need to buy an external DAC like a Schiit Modi or Schiit Bifrost. Hopefully that won't be necessary.