Dean Martin at Capitol Records 1948- 1962

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by DLant, May 6, 2013.

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  1. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident

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    Ah, interesting, thanks. I assumed the RCA 77U was positioned to pick up the reflections of the room. But that makes more sense.
     
  2. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

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    ...and I believe Davies may have engineered COME SWING WITH ME!. The French horns have a nice "bloom" on there, so he obviously knew what to do with them, at least in 1961. No idea how them came off in that Newsom album...
     
  3. OnTheRoad

    OnTheRoad Not of this world

    Oh and...on my Capitol Collectors Series disc...it must've been mastered on a true MONO 1 channel machine. The numbers when ran on a DR check are the same in each channel, peaks and RMS, as compared to many mono masters that were done on a stereo machine, hence varying levels on songs ! I wish all the mono mastering engineers had access to these true machines.
     
  4. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident

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    Good. Releases that use mono source tapes transferred by a machine equipped with stereo heads can be distracting and take away from the enjoyment of the music.
     
  5. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident

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    Although I have mixed feelings about electronic overdubs, one thing I enjoy about the Forever Cool project is that Capitol issued so much studio chatter. The fact they had to dig (as Steve has indicated) into the session reels for this material proves that Dean is still a strong seller, and I hope that we'll hear more outtakes in the future.
     
  6. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    I don't know with 100% certainty that they were transferred using a mono head, but I do know that the Furmanek/Walsh masterings are typically 100% mono on the mono tracks.
     
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  7. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident

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    Even if they are transferred using stereo heads and summed to mono, that's better than the alternative. Yuck.

    To me, the phenomenon of channel imbalance in an analog-to-digital transfer is the same as needledropping. Somehow, surface noise becomes so much more apparent. I wish I had an explanation for it. If I'm playing an open reel tape in headphones, it doesn't bother me. In fact, I quite enjoy a little dropout here and there from a mono signal. Adds to the charm. Ditto for an original LP and its minimal surface noise. But, if it's a digital source, I'm...annoyed.

    @MLutthans, it's like that twitchy thing you do when violins are mixed stereo right.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2015
  8. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    No.....in many cases, it would actually be much worse. Taking one channel would be the better choice. (Using a mono head, of course, would be best.)
     
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  9. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident

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    I suppose so. There could be weird phasing issues if they are summed. But which channel is preferred? The softer, or the louder? Depends on whether the tape levels were properly set, I guess. Either way, the french horn players had beans for dinner. And, because it's a mono mix, we're stuck with 'em.
     
  10. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Unless there's tape damage or some sort of significant misalignment or something, the two channels should be very similar in their fluctuations. If there's tape damage, warping, dropouts, whatever, take the channel that's least damaged, and assumedly both channels would be transferred anyway (unless you are using a mono digital recorder??????) so no decision need be made on the fly. (Many examples of this have cropped up in the Sinatra singles comparisons, including the most recent track, "Crazy Love," which, in its original CD incarnation, had stereo playback of a mono original, and all the dropouts were in the right channel only.)
     
  11. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident

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    Warping is the worst. Really turns a good day bad. And squeaky reel syndrome. But, nothing lasts forever, except digital! Yay.
     
  12. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident

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    Any idea if we'll see more audiophile reissues of Dean now that Universal owns the catalogue?
     
  13. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident

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    No idea?
     
  14. jbintenn

    jbintenn Forum Resident

    An observation while archiving to digital my vinyl copy of "Sleep Warm" and it has to do with Dean's vocals sounding different in one particular session versus the other two. In all the songs recorded in this session,
    14 October 1958 [7333, 22:00-01:00] Capitol Recording Studio, 1750 North Vine St., Hollywood, CA – Dean Martin (orchestra cond. by Frank Sinatra)

    SLEEP WARM
    LET'S PUT OUT THE LIGHTS
    BRAHMS' LULLABY
    GOODNIGHT MY LOVE

    Dean's voice sounds different, almost distorted at times to me. 'Distorted' may be too strong of a word but not for "Let's Put Out The Lights" as it seems to be more noticeable there. But there was definitely something wrong with the vocal taping on that day. The rest of the music sounds wonderful to me but it is just the vocals that are a bit tweaked and distorted in places on those four songs. It is a muffled type sound at times similar to the sound when you are too close to a microphone. But I know that could not have been the case. Does anybody else notice this or is it just me? Incidently, the session was the middle of the three.

    Absolutely breathtaking sound at times to me overall, however.
     
  15. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

  16. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident

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    I think I've heard what you're referring to, but I've only really noticed it on "Let's Put Out The Lights (And Go To Sleep)". Perhaps Dean was up against the mike for this track. Or if he wasn't singing out, perhaps the feed was turned up and that caused some mild distortion artifacts.

    Dunno. Matt? Thoughts?
     
  17. jbintenn

    jbintenn Forum Resident

    I have an original stereo pressing.
    Side One: ST1-1150-N1
    Side Two: ST2-1150-D3

    It looks like it was pressed at the Scranton, Pennsylvania plant as I am seeing the anvil stamped in the deadwax as well.
     
  18. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Well, I've never tried to pin it down to individual tracks that have that sound that @jbintenn mentions, but I've definitely noticed it on the album before, at least on the stereo LP that I have dubbed to a CD-R and play from time to time.
     
  19. jbintenn

    jbintenn Forum Resident

    I can hear some slight distortion at the very first of "Sleep Warm" as I am listening to it just now again. The song starts out with Dean singing....."Sleep warm. Sleep tight. When you turn out the lights." It sounds like Dean (albeit a more mellow tone almost like he has a cold, which he may have) until he says the words 'turn out' and it almost sounds fabricated to a point, distorted. But yes, really pick up some distortion on "Let's Put Out The Lights" throughout. The other two songs also just do not have the vocal integrity and clarity to me that the other two session's vocals have.
     
  20. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Just a quick off-topic plug for an LP I recently picked up that has stunningly good 3-mic stereo sound from Capitol: Gordon MacRae's 1958 "In Concert." Like Sinatra's "The Concert Sinatra," this is not a live album, but a collection of big-orchestrated ballads, as would be suitable for encores at a concert, I guess.

    Also recorded in multi-mic mono, but I've not heard that one.
    http://www.patfullerton.com/gm/reviews/inconcertreview.html
     
  21. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Yesterday at Half-Price Books, I spent a whopping 50 cents for a 2-LP set made to promote JBL Speakers in 1973, called "Sessions." The album was recorded and mixed at Capitol in 1973, with longtime Capitol mixer Hugh Davies at the controls.

    Here's the discogs page for the album, with artwork: http://www.discogs.com/Various-Sessions/master/563290

    There's a great 8-page booklet chock-full-o-photos from Capitol, including this shot which appears to show one of the worksheets used to document mic positions on the studio floor's grid/numbering system, visible in the lower left corner:
    CapitolFlooringSHTV.jpg
     
  22. DmitriKaramazov

    DmitriKaramazov Senior Member

    And... Impossible not to LOVE Dean Martin!
     
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  23. steveinphilly

    steveinphilly Forum Resident

    I have had this CD for at least 15 years and never noticed it before, but listening to it now on a budget-priced 10-CD set from the UK ("11 Original Albums & 56 Bonus Tracks"), I notice it tremendously. At times, it sounds like someone else singing, in my opinion--someone quite good but not Dino. I would say that he had a cold or something going on with his voice, more than a difference in the microphone, but maybe it sounds different on vinyl.
     
  24. nick25

    nick25 Member

    "Swingin' Down Yonder" is my favourite Dean Martin album from this period. I'm not sure the original LP was actually released in the UK in the 50's though. I've seen the EP's but never the original LP.
     
  25. Ronald Sarbo

    Ronald Sarbo Forum Resident

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    NY, NY, USA
    The post Matt made about Gordon MacRae's "In Concert" album points to a similarity in the Capitol legacies of Sinatra, Martin and Nat King Cole. The "BIG" showstoppers are missing in the work of all 3 on Capitol. If Sinatra had made "Carousel" there would have been some R & H by him on Capitol instead Gordon did the film and the LP. Perhaps Capitol felt Gordon was their "go to" guy for this type of material? As soon as Sinatra leaves Capitol he returns to this genre on Reprise. It would have been interesting to hear Dean and Nat do some of these songs.
     
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