14 out of 15 listeners can't tell the difference between PONO & iTunes Store downloads on an iPhone

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by thestereofan, Jan 30, 2015.

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  1. SammyU

    SammyU Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    Maybe. But they are increasing (Acoustic Sounds Suer Hires, Pro Studio Masters) and more companies (such as Sony) are investing in it. So I would think the opposite. B
    Maybe. But they are increasing (Acoustic Sounds Suer Hires, Pro Studio Masters) and more companies (such as Sony) are investing in it. So I would think the opposite, but I really do not know. They certainly are a niche market.
     
  2. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    Pono is not quite the Emperor's New Clothes. For that, you need to go back to green markers or certain types of grossly expensive cables.

    But the reality is that, given realistic listening environments/equipment, the benefits of Pono over other sources are, I believe, going to be vanishingly small.

    Was the blinded system that the writer of the article described flawed? Sure. If you are going to do this study, you want to omit any other potential sources of noise to the extent that is reasonably possible. So even though the Radio Shack switcher is probably just fine, replace it for the experiment with something perceived as high end, so that no one will be able to focus on that and derail the discussion. Same with any interconnects.

    Next, you probably want to do the test with four types of headphones:

    1) Bargain basement crap similar to what comes with the iPod, or SkullCandy, etc.
    2) MidFi headphones, like the ones used for the study
    3) Bass biased headphones like Beats
    4) HiFi headphones, e.g. high end multi hundred dollar headphones from Sennheiser or Shure, for example.

    Next, get a few more tracks that better test the boundaries of reproduction. Get a very dense production with a lot of bass. Get something with organ music (always a challenge). Figure out a nice set of 10 tracks that test different boundaries.

    For listeners for your study, make sure you get some kids (< 20), whose hearing should be better, as well as older folks.

    Now do the A/B study.

    My guess is that if you do this, you will still obtain results that suggest that Pono is mostly pointless for listeners using headphones in categories 1-3, and moreso for older listeners. But I'd be happy to be proven wrong...
     
  3. Mij Retrac

    Mij Retrac Forum Resident

    Tinnitus doesn't prevent you from being able to tell the difference between good and bad sound quality. It just makes it more difficult to.
     
  4. rcsrich

    rcsrich Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    Right- now you need to repeat that same process about 50 times and you'll have something closer to a statistically valid sample...
     
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  5. SammyU

    SammyU Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    Of course you are entitled to your opinion. I think Pono/higher-end portable can be a successful niche market....the industry seems to be picking up some momentum. But I doubt it will ever be 'mainstream.'
     
  6. carrolls

    carrolls Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin
    If they are only putting up a minimal amount of Hi Res recordings on the site, what is the point of Pono?
     
  7. Terry

    Terry Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee
    Brilliant. Well stated.
     
  8. Mij Retrac

    Mij Retrac Forum Resident

    The site is new. They are adding to and upgrading it all the time. They probably have more hi-res on their site after a couple of months than HDtracks did when they were only a couple of months old.
     
  9. Rfreeman

    Rfreeman Senior Member

    Location:
    Lawrenceville, NJ
    But do their dentists reccommend sugarless gum for their patients who chew gum?
     
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  10. ubiknik

    ubiknik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    I would have to basically agree, although I think a vinyl set up can be done well even if you shop smart for cheap.
    The real advantage to vinyl is the plethora of existing quality mastering sounds and of course the concrete media.
    Those advantages have been available for awhile now and obviously people have been happily going down that path, with a great percentage of them already standing with a foot in the digital world for sometime now.
    More recently the potential for the digital realm has taken off.

    I like a lot of the old analog just the way it is and the fact that it can be recorded hi res and still sound great is a big bonus, plus being able to then tuck the lp away for future reference or sale etc.
    Admittedly I like the idea of everything being on a magical chip, that then plays beautifully wherever you go and takes up the storage space of a pack of cigarettes. In the future the whole process will probably sound miles better and just react to your mood, snap a finger and a holographic lp cover will appear in the air and you can resize it with a hand gesture.

    The future is often stranger than imagined though.
     
  11. SammyU

    SammyU Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    Maybe. Doesn't mean that trend can be reversed and a successful niche product can't thrive. Vinyl was all but dead at one point. Now it has increased its market share. Why? Vinyl is certainly not as convenient as playing music on a smartphone and is more expensive, but offers better sound quality. Some people are interested in that.

    Perhaps a hi-quality portable player can have similar success for similar reasons.
     
  12. ubiknik

    ubiknik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    This is absolutely true, if anything it makes you crave good sound to distract from the damage done from all the old good sounds...
     
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  13. ubiknik

    ubiknik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    It's framed with a skull just like everybody else walking around with two legs.
     
  14. autodidact

    autodidact Forum Resident

    In the abstract, I am ambivalent about whether Pono succeeds or not, because I am not likely to ever buy a player. I might possibly (slight chance) at some point buy downloads from them, but only if they are vetted and approved by trusted witnesses on this forum. I think the real value of the whole Pono thing is that it provides competition and impetus for HDTracks to up the ante and distinguish themselves as better than Pono downloads, because this line they constantly give -- "if it don't sound good it ain't our fault, we're just selling what the record companies give us" -- doesn't go over well with me. And consequently I have bought hardly anything from them. I have some of their McCartney stuff on my wish list. If HDTracks ever develops the reputation for quality that Analogue Productions or MoFi has, then their establishment becomes a lot more attractive. I could say the same for Pono.

    In any case, this is never going to be a mainstream thing. I've seen enough average folks confronted with higher quality sound who can't tell the difference, or even prefer what sounds worse. High quality audio just doesn't have mass appeal, for whatever reason.
     
  15. ReggieTheVaper

    ReggieTheVaper Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Maybe Neil Young has Hi-res Tinnitus, thus enhancing his perception of Hi-Res audio.

     
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  16. BurgerKing

    BurgerKing Forum Resident

    Because then I'm not really listening to it-- it's just background while I'm attempting to give my attention to something else. That's not how I choose to do it. Sorry if it offends your sensibilities. If that's how you choose to enjoy something you claim means so much to you, well-- good for you
     
  17. cwsiggy

    cwsiggy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vero Beach, FL
    If Apple ever came out with a hi Rez player with similar audiophile specs / implementation, I wonder if that article would be completely different. I suspect so .
     
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  18. Licorice pizza

    Licorice pizza Livin’ On The Fault Line

    "I am just a poor boy though my Pono seldom sold..." :D
     
  19. bluenote

    bluenote Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    I agree 100%. All of my friends, family, etc cannot tell the difference nor do they care about sound quality. Their MP3 files are just fine for them. And that's great for them. Pono is only for audiophiles, it will only be a niche product.
     
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  20. Mij Retrac

    Mij Retrac Forum Resident

    You are comparing apples and oranges. Analogue Productions and MoFi do their own mastering and HDtracks and Pono don't. They are only retailers selling what they are given to sell. It would be like a mom and pop hardware store telling John Deer to change what they are doing or they won't buy from them anymore. They just don't have the leverage to do that. Maybe someday but certainly not now. Pono has the ability to do that with Neil Young's albums obviously but not with the other titles unless Neil can convince the artist to make the label do something.
     
  21. ubiknik

    ubiknik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    a LOT of articles would be different.. [​IMG]
     
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  22. carrolls

    carrolls Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin
    But why even bother putting anything other than Hi Res on the website. Anything else is defeating the purpose of Pono. It's like playing a VHS video on your 4K television.
     
  23. Lucidae

    Lucidae AAD

    Location:
    Australia
    I for one welcome any and all lossless download sites, at the moment there are so few options.
     
  24. ubiknik

    ubiknik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    ya man, portable VHS high fidelity sound is the best![​IMG]
     
  25. ROLO46

    ROLO46 Forum Resident

    Many people have damaged hearing, thats why IDevices have low level ish cans amps, to prevent litigation
    Nagra was sued in the US because of h ilevel cans out on its recorders,prolonged listening and aural damage
    My Classic IPod 160 will drive HD 800 to enjoyable levels ,HD650 too, its happier with the supplied ear pieces (they have a very delicate mid and top band but no bottom 2 octaves)
    Its still a clever player and hifi with lossless files
    Pono can't compete with phones and pads its obvious
    Variable rate ITunes down loads are very good, cans are a very good transducer to gauge Hi Res v Variable or lossless SQ
    I doubt I could identify the source with pop music, perhaps with reverberant harpsichord material around the the masking level I might
     
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