HDTracks News (part 10)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Jerry, Jan 29, 2015.

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  1. Mij Retrac

    Mij Retrac Forum Resident

    I can't say but I believe they ask for your billing info even if you use PayPal and that's where they get you.
     
  2. xj32

    xj32 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Racine, WI
    I think Mij's point may be, and he can correct me if I am wrong is that DR numbers cannot and should not be the end all, be all of if a release is good or sounds good as there are other factors that play into it, such as eq, mastering and such.

    Some people here use DR ratings like a religion, DR=13 GOOD, all the time! DR=9 BAD all the time!

    I think that cut and dried approach sells some releases short.

    I honestly think there are people here that if you got them in a room and played them 5 or 6 albums on a good system and then asked them what they though, they might pick a few of the albums and say they loved how they sounded. Then I bet those same people would back pedal instantly if it was suddenly revealed to have a single digit DR Rating. I see that sort of thing all the time on gear forums.
     
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  3. SammyU

    SammyU Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    True enough, but all other thing being equal, higher DR/unlimited music is preferable to lower DR/limited music. As such, I personally want to know what the DR numbers are, as do others. Yes, DR numbers are not everything, but all of the top-shelf 'demo' recordings I have are at least DR 9.
     
    Gardo likes this.
  4. Doug Sclar

    Doug Sclar Forum Legend

    Location:
    The OC
    Neighbors and girlfriends can be very helpful in this regard. :)
     
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  5. JamieLang

    JamieLang Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Here's the thing....since I've becomes a bit of a zealot...DR9 doesn't means a recording sounds bad. AT ALL.

    Taking a DR 13 recording and mastering it to DR9 is ALWAYS worse RELATIVE to the DR13 version. Can I confess somehting? I HATE vinyl. It's a terrible format from the perspective of an engineer who would like to deliver the studio recording to the consumer. And a DR13 piece of vinyl will sound better than a DR9 24/96 usually (if we also assume you've got a decent vinyl playback system adjusted properly). Those are not contradictory.

    So, the objection is a relative thing. And my objection comes from hearing too many mixes for too many years presented this way--it IS relative for me. How many people here think recordings were made better in 1976 than now? That's not close to the truth, IME. Admittedly, it was well into the awkward phases of the next decade that I started doing engineering as a teenager....but, point is--the reason people think vinyl sounds better than digital is hugely because of two factors: high end roll off on less turntables and the original dynamic masters.

    Which leads us to proof that I"m not a "more is better"---the reason people didn't like early CDs is that they're MORE dynamic than vinyl. The DR13-DR11 is the window for vinyl (bass RMS compensated)...now--I personally LOVE those early CDs that are more dynamic than the vinyl masters. It's why I switched to buying CDs before I "had to". If they'd have made CDs their eventual DR6/7/8 in 1986? I wouldn't have ever switched as a listener. I'd have seen CD as a "cassette replacement"....and ignored it like I ignored cassettes. Which--someone should pull the DR of those, I bet it was near single digits. It was certainly LESS than the CDs and vinyl. I know--because I made my own cassettes for my car for that reason. Commercial cassette masters were truly awful.
     
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  6. tgdinamo

    tgdinamo Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    I also went all jazz this time - was impossible to resist that 20% coupon and I had these on the wishlist for a long time:

    John Coltrane - Giant Steps (Mono)
    Duke Ellington & John Hodges - Back to Back
    Duke Ellington & John Hodges - Side by Side
    Sonny Clark - Leapin' and Loapin'
    Ben Webster Meets Oscar Peterson
    Thelonious Monk Quartet - Misterioso

    Should be a great jazz weekend.
     
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  7. Mij Retrac

    Mij Retrac Forum Resident

    Unfortunately this is less the case than you think. I have found the record with the same mastering as the CD can very typically have a fluctuation of up to 4db. Many times its only 3db but it is not uncommon (as a matter of fact it's pretty typical) that the vinyl has an extra 4db). This is even with a well set up vinyl rig of decent quality.
     
  8. bodhisattva

    bodhisattva Senior Member

    I bought the 96/24 download of 'Rocks' because it's one of my favourites and as much as I wanted to like it, I felt like I couldn't get 'inside' the music at all because EVERYTHING WAS THE SAME VOLUME ALL THE TIME right from the first note of the first song. Where did you hear/read that these are the same remasters done for vinyl? I compared Back In The Saddle from the 96/24 HDTracks version with a 96/24 needledrop of a first pressing (see image below) and the difference in dynamics is so significant you'd almost thing it was a remix or something. Is this really what modern vinyl sounds like?

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Mij Retrac

    Mij Retrac Forum Resident

    You can't compare waveforms of a needledrop to waveforms of a digital file. They will never look the same even if it's the same mastering. A 4db difference between a record and a digital file is not uncommon even with the same mastering.

    The 2012 remasters were done for vinyl. They started by releasing them on RSD and then released them eventually as digital downloads on iTunes and then HDtracks.

    I bet if you did a needledrop of the reissue it would be very close to or the same as your original vinyl. It may be a dB louder.
     
  10. Starwanderer

    Starwanderer Senior Member

    Location:
    Valencia, Spain
    Great choices :righton:

    I only have Sonny Clark's "Leapin' and Loapin'" and found it a bit "aggressive-sounding." Could you please comment on the others when you listen to them?

    From the batch I bought this afternoon, I've listened to Branford Marsalis' "In My Solitude: Live at Grace Cathedral" and Charles Lloyd's "Hagar's Song" and I highly recommend them. I've listened to them on the computer and I'm looking forward to listening to them on my big system.
     
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  11. Amperage

    Amperage Forum Resident

    Location:
    CO, USA
    Ok, I took a hit for the team and bought the 2012 Remastered Toys in the Attic 96/24 from HDTracks.

    Here's the deets:

    Top is my original Redbook, bottom is the HDTracks 96/24.

    [​IMG]

    Here's the DR info - Top is Redbook, bottom is HDTracks 96/24 DR10 vs. DR8:

    foobar2000 1.3.7 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
    log date: 2015-01-30 14:59:18
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Analyzed: Aerosmith / Toys in the Attic
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    DR Peak RMS Duration Track
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    DR10 -0.51 dB -11.84 dB 3:07 01-Toys in the Attic
    DR11 -0.74 dB -13.69 dB 4:10 02-Uncle Salty
    DR10 -0.32 dB -12.31 dB 4:34 03-Adam's Apple
    DR11 -0.21 dB -12.75 dB 3:41 04-Walk This Way
    DR11 -0.42 dB -13.54 dB 2:16 05-Big Ten Inch Record
    DR10 -0.21 dB -13.09 dB 4:34 06-Sweet Emotion
    DR10 -0.93 dB -13.67 dB 4:34 07-No More No More
    DR10 -1.45 dB -13.02 dB 5:03 08-Round and Round
    DR10 -1.27 dB -13.03 dB 5:12 09-You See Me Crying
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Number of tracks: 9
    Official DR value: DR10
    Samplerate: 44100 Hz
    Channels: 2
    Bits per sample: 16
    Bitrate: 1411 kbps
    Codec: PCM
    ================================================================================
    foobar2000 1.3.7 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
    log date: 2015-01-30 14:51:25
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Analyzed: Aerosmith / Toys In The Attic
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    DR Peak RMS Duration Track
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    DR8 -0.54 dB -9.66 dB 3:07 01-Toys In The Attic (2012 Remaster)
    DR8 -0.50 dB -10.81 dB 4:10 02-Uncle Salty (2012 Remaster)
    DR8 -0.55 dB -9.96 dB 4:34 03-Adam's Apple (2012 Remaster)
    DR8 -0.50 dB -10.24 dB 3:42 04-Walk This Way (2012 Remaster)
    DR9 -0.50 dB -11.07 dB 2:17 05-Big Ten Inch Record (2012 Remaster)
    DR7 -0.50 dB -10.01 dB 4:35 06-Sweet Emotion (2012 Remaster)
    DR9 -0.50 dB -10.58 dB 4:35 07-No More No More (2012 Remaster)
    DR7 -0.50 dB -8.97 dB 5:04 08-Round And Round (2012 Remaster)
    DR8 -0.50 dB -10.16 dB 5:12 09-You See Me Crying (2012 Remaster)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Number of tracks: 9
    Official DR value: DR8
    Samplerate: 96000 Hz
    Channels: 2
    Bits per sample: 24
    Bitrate: 4608 kbps
    Codec: PCM
    ================================================================================

    So, I've listened to a couple of tracks and it actually sounds pretty good - obviously no clipping and from what I can tell, no real compression. The 96/24 definitely sounds more "open" and a slight bit more detailed. WAY too soon to say much more until I can have a real listen on my main system. Hopefully this is a good 6th post contribution. :)
     
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  12. tgdinamo

    tgdinamo Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    I have so far listened to Giant Steps, Back To Back, and Webster Meets Peterson, and I can highly recommend Back To Back and Webster Meets Peterson - both of those are already on my favorite jazz recordings list (love at first listen :love:). Listening to third track of Side By Side and that album is fantastic as well - similar to Back To Back which is not a surprise given they were supposedly recorded during same session (could have easily made that into double album).
    As far as Giant Steps, there are few tracks there I liked very much but also several that don't do much for me, at least after first listen (I find with Coltrane and Miles it's sometimes more of acquired taste and I need to spend more time with that music - for example it took me a lot of listening to Bitches Brew but it eventually became one of my favorites).
    Also, I took the chance with Leapin and Loapin' because I recently purchased Sonny Clark's Cool Struttin' and I really love that so figured why not try another one of his albums. Will let you know what I think when I get to it.
     
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  13. Wolfspaw

    Wolfspaw Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    I have noticed that DR ratings can vary for the same CD or SACD. Someone uploads their numbers and someone else uploads numbers for the same recording and they are not the same. The DR ratings are not sacrosanct.
     
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  14. Starwanderer

    Starwanderer Senior Member

    Location:
    Valencia, Spain
    Thanks. I'll try "Back to Back" and "Webster Meets Peterson" ;)
     
  15. Mij Retrac

    Mij Retrac Forum Resident

    See what did I tell you :D
     
  16. motionoftheocean

    motionoftheocean Senior Member

    Location:
    Circus Maximus
    in part 9, there was a discussion about phase issues in the 24/192 Songs in the Key of Life for sale on HDtracks that never really got resolved. I really love this record and given that the Pono store has it for $5 cheaper than HDtracks I'm considering taking the plunge but the phase situation worries me a bit. can anyone who's listened extensively to both the Kevin Gray remaster and the 24/192 weigh in?

    and has there ever been confirmation if the BluRay and HDtracks are one and the same?
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2015
  17. Stephen Murphy

    Stephen Murphy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Edmonton Alberta
    There is one member here who didn't like the sound when playing it in mono at his office. Everyone else who has heard it thinks it is one of the better hires titles out there. (I tried it in mono and it sounded excellent to me.) Don't know if the Pono version is the same as the HDTracks I bought, but if it is, it is a no-brainer.
     
  18. DR.J

    DR.J Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago Suburb
    Thanks all for posting the 20% off code. Didn't get that email. Bought:

    Duke Ellington - Concert In The Virgin Islands 24/192
    Rebirth Brass Band - Move Your Body 24/96
    John Lee Hooker - It Servers You Right To Suffer 24/96

    Listening to Duke now - Sounds great to me!! Lovely Music too!!
     
  19. DR.J

    DR.J Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago Suburb
    Moving on to Chicago II. My niece gave me an HDTracks gift certificate for Christmas. Just getting around to listening (too much great music). Holly Crap is this good!!!
     
  20. motionoftheocean

    motionoftheocean Senior Member

    Location:
    Circus Maximus
    and mastered by Kevin Reeves? sounds like a no-brainer to me. cheers.
     
  21. 007james

    007james Forum Resident

    Location:
    nyc
    Well, the whole hype of the Digital Age was wider Dynamic range. I think the best dynamic range available should be offered, people (not people like us here on SH forum) should be better educated on what smaller/bigger dynamic range offers and when less is better and should be applied (like "party Mode). I think this is something that should be adjustable in portable players and high end relievers for that reason while also offering a "pure mode" as well. The thing is, once the music is compressed, you really can't add the range back, which brings me back to why the highest range should always be offered on all formats and if needed, you can adjust the range according to the listening environment. I live in a studio apartment in NYC and i even i noted under a certain circumstance where less range would be better. Example, when i was listening to the recent release of Supertramp Crime of The Century (Blu-Ray), during Dreamer, which sounded great ( and i hear it's even better range with hdtracks downloads), that i was reaching for the remote as the volume change was pretty drastic, normally the range would be fine and i would prefer the higher range if i had no neighbors or i just did not care but in this case a limiter would have helped such as Dynamic Volume or Night mode or Party Mode, you get the Idea....
     
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  22. Six String

    Six String Senior Member

    That's what I was thinking. In that case, thank's for sharing.
     
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  23. 007james

    007james Forum Resident

    Location:
    nyc

    I hope that made some sense, I'm on my 3rd and final Scotch and soda, just trying to add some input....:)
     
  24. Stephen Murphy

    Stephen Murphy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Edmonton Alberta
    He did all those Stevie Wonder 70s albums as well as Marvin Gaye, Velvet Underground, all the Verve stuff. All of it is good. There is a video interview with him where he mentions the Stevie Wonder albums, but more importantly, he talks about doing all these titles for HDTracks. He says you can't mess with the sound of them because the people who buy them know what they are supposed to sound like. He says he "lets the tapes do the talking."
     
  25. Lucidae

    Lucidae AAD

    Location:
    Australia
    DR ratings are mathematical, so it should always match up unless there is a variable involved.
    Sometimes the track order is not in the same sequence, so just on that basis it can appear the numbers are different.
    In the case of SACD's, the way the disc was ripped and converted can also affect the score.
     
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