Johnny Cash - goes pledge music? the complete sun sessions

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Davidmk5, Dec 27, 2014.

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  1. Davidmk5

    Davidmk5 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marlboro , ma. usa
    Seems everything is a pay 1st system


    http://www.pledgemusic.com/projects...out4136&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=person7


    RockBeat Records, Sun Entertainment and Fender Musical Instruments have partnered with PledgeMusic and co-branded with The Johnny Cash Museum in Nashville in order to bring you exclusive items only available here – and official mandatory merchandise that you may have missed the first time around. This retrospective leaves no stone (or track) unturned in it’s effort to offer a very detailed glimpse into the world of Johnny Cash with audio and video from his tenure at Sun 1955 to 1959.

    Have a look at the unique Johnny Cash Limited Edition Collectors PikCARD (front & back image shown), that reflects the team collaboration at work with this campaign – and features the brand logos of our partners. The exclusive Johnny Cash Fender Esquire guitar utilizes our cover image tastefully placed on the pick guard. Insiders know that Cash’s longtime right hand guitar man Luther Perkins coveted and played an early 1955 model Fender Esquire, we thought that was rather appropriate inspiration to create this version. The Esquire pick guard also allows more generous room for our cover graphic.

    Here’s everything else for the Cash enthusiast, including Access Pass with exclusive content, Sun Studios Johnny Cash Folsom Prison Blues T-Shirt (specify size), Sun Studio Johnny Cash Signature Black Cap, Johnny Cash ‘The Life’ Book (signed by author Robert Hilburn), Johnny Cash – The Sun EP Collection, Johnny Cash – The Complete Sun Sessions 7 Disc Deluxe Box Set of course and The Ultimate Johnny Cash Combo Box. Note that all items include our Access Pass.
     
  2. mikeja75

    mikeja75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.S.
    I'm definitely interested, but without a posted track list for the five CD set of Sun Recordings I'm just going to wait.

    I've been trying to compile all of the available Sun recordings over time and could easily come up with five CDs (or more) when you put together all of the undubbed recordings along with the outtakes, alternates, and false starts that are available.

    Between the Time/Life set, the Varese Sarabande set, the Bear Family Complete set, the Bear Family Outtakes set, etc etc., it's pretty easy to compile a five disc set of Sun material.

    When the Bear Family 3 CD Outtakes set was released it was stated:

    Towards the end of 2006 I was approached by Richard Weize of Bear Family who asked if I would be interested in putting together the set and, of course, I agreed. My first task was to work out which outtakes had already been issued on the Man In Black 1954-1958 and other releases and compile a spreadsheet detailing where these could be found. I then received nine CDs with various outtakes, false starts and studio chat that also contained some material that had been out before. Unfortunately there were many Sun tracks for which no alternates have survived although what was there made interesting listening.

    Source: http://www.johnnycashfanzine.com/outtakes.html

    Even if the nine CDs contained two discs worth of previously released material, there still seems to be a good deal of material that hasn't seen the light of day. I'd assume that the 3 CD Outtakes set compiled the best of this left over material, but I guess it depends on how they are defining 'complete' since five CDs obviously isn't going to cover everything that was recorded when you take into account false starts, etc.

    If someone is going to the trouble of compiling this type of set for Johnny's Sun years, I wished they'd just kitchen sink it and release a massive set that covers it all. Or how about releasing a smaller CD version with an option to download the 'kitchen sink' in lossless quality?

    If I remember correctly, there's about 19 or 20 (maybe more) songs that include overdubs -- it would be nice, from a collector's standpoint, if they had an extra disc that included all of these tracks. Although that gets interesting since the Time/Life set includes a few tracks with limited overdubs left in (Like Teenage Queen with the chorus overdubbed left intact (nicely I might add)) while you can also find the fully overdubbed version along with the undubbed version. So it's a rabbit hole at times...

    So I guess I'm holding out and waiting to see if they have truly 'new' to offer. I'm hoping for stellar sound quality (although much of this material can be found in excellent sound) and a number of tracks that haven't been previously released.
     
  3. I'll keep my eye on this potential set.
     
  4. mikeja75

    mikeja75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.S.
    Who actually owns the rights to the Johnny Cash Sun Recordings?

    I see that there's a nice 88 track (download only) set available on itunes, Amazon MP3, Spotify, etc. It seems to have most of the overdubbed tracks along with their undubbed counter parts. So it's definitely far from complete, but a good selection of tracks from the Sun Recordings and includes a number of alternate takes also. You can see it here: http://www.amazon.com/At-Sun-Johnny...F8&qid=1420153595&sr=8-4&keywords=cash+at+sun

    This was released in March 2014.

    I was thinking that this four disc, 88 track set could be the source for this new "complete" set coming from the Pledge Music site, but then I noticed that Sony was nowhere to be found in the description (only RockBeat Records, Sun Entertainment and Fender Musical Instruments have partnered with PledgeMusic and co-branded with The Johnny Cash Museum in Nashville). Is RockBeat licensing the tracks from Sony?

    It seems like the Sony digital set was a good start -- I only wish that they had gone a bit further with including some of the false starts, etc.
     
  5. Sony does not own the Sun recordings.
     
  6. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Senior Member

    Location:
    Vancouver
    Would the outtakes get a PD release in Europe once the Sun outtakes cd is released in the US?
     
  7. mikeja75

    mikeja75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.S.
    I see that the Pledge Music site has posted the track listing for Disc One of the set, but you can't see it unless you pledge. It doesn't make sense to me in the least -- why would anyone put down $135 on the CD set without knowing the tracks that are being included?

    I would think that a big selling point of this set would be the inclusion of previously unissued material...but it's so quite that it makes me think that they don't have much to offer outside of the material that has already seen the light of day.

    Be sure to check out the (digital only) 88 track set from Sony (c) 2014 entitled 'Johnny Cash at Sun' -- I've compared nearly all the tracks to a number of other Sun releases and I think it beats them all. The Time/Life 3 CD set is as good, but the extra 27 tracks on the Sony set puts it over the top. You can find a lossless version on Qobuz and the Pono site.
     
  8. mikeja75

    mikeja75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.S.
    Update! Pledge Music was quick to email me with a small graphic of the track listing for the first disc -- so good for them for staying on top of things. That's impressive. It was pretty tough to read, but I appreciated the effort, and I could make out most of it.

    I still think that they should post this basic info for all to see since it does appear that their set has a few tracks that possibly were previously unissued (one being a "slower" take of "So Doggone Lonesome").
     
  9. Hiding information is never a good way to market an expensive product.
     
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  10. mikeja75

    mikeja75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.S.
    I pledged at the lowest level so that I could see the track listings for the discs as they are posted -- hoping to see what tracks are truly unique to this set. It still baffles me that they keep this hidden since these unreleased tracks are the true selling point for this $100+ set. I don't think they get that.

    From the descriptions on the pledge page, the following are tracks labeled as 'unreleased':

    CD 1

    Wide Open Road (Unreleased Alternate Take)
    Port of Lonely Hearts (Unreleased Version Added Reverb)
    So Doggone Lonesome (Unreleased Slower Take)

    CD 2

    One More Ride (Incomplete Take 2) *
    Goodbye Little Darlin' (Unreleased Alternate Take)

    CD 3

    I Was There When It Happened (Unreleased Alternate Take)

    From the sessionography that I've reviewed, I don't show another alternate take of "I Was There When It Happened" that hasn't already been released...but hey, who knows. I'm also not aware of a second incomplete take of "One More Ride" that has been made available -- there's the :50 version that breaks down and the longer version that (to my ears) is simply an edited version that repeats itself twice with a lousy edit in the middle where the initial breakdown should take place. Both the normal edit everyone has and the longer lousy edit are both listed as being on this set along with that third "incomplete take".

    The descriptions being released aren't very helpful in trying to figure all of this out. For example, they list three studio versions of "Belshazzar":

    1. Alternate Short Version
    2. Undubbed Take
    3. Overdubbed Take

    The undubbed take is available on numerous releases (The three disc Charly set, the new Sony set from 2014, the Time Life set, etc) and the overdubbed version is found on the 3 Disc Complete Sun set from Charly. The alternate short version could either be the the demo version found on the Bootleg II release or the take one recorded "possibly Summer 1957" just prior to take two (which would end up being the undubbed master take). Take one, as far as I can tell, has never been issued -- but it's not listed as being "unreleased" on the pledge music site.

    So it does appear that there's a few tracks that are new to collectors, but what those are likely won't be fully known until someone gets the set in hand and compares it all to what's currently on the market.

    I'll report back on discs 4 and 5 if there's interest.
     
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  11. mikeja75

    mikeja75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.S.
    The track list for CD4 is up and there are two tracks that are marked as unreleased:

    CD 4

    You're the Nearest Thing To Heaven (Unreleased Alternate)
    Born To Lose (Undubbed Master - Unreleased)
     
  12. mikeja75

    mikeja75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.S.
    CD 5 is up and there are two tracks that they list as unreleased:

    I Just Thought You'd Like To Know (Unreleased)
    Down the Street to 301 (Unreleased Alternate Version)

    I'm not aware of any takes of "I Just Thought You'd Like To Know" that haven't been released in some fashion between the Bear Outtakes set and the 1995 Charly 3 disc set...so I'm guessing that the pledge music info is incorrect.

    There are a few versions of '301' that haven't been released previously so it's likely that this one could be new to collectors.

    This is an ambitious set for sure. If they do a great mastering job across the board it definitely might be worthwhile -- even if there's only a handful of songs that are truly unique to this set. I'm not a huge fan of the mastering on the Bear Outtakes 3 CD set so an improvement in those recordings would be ideal. It would be nice to know a bit more about the mastering of this set (since there's no info about it on the pledge site), but I fear that they will simply use existing digital masters and smooth out the rough edges to make it sound semi coherent when playing all of the outtakes against the master tracks.

    This is one time when I wish they'd include some sort of digital download that throws in the kitchen since so that we can have all of the existing recordings once and for all.
     
  13. I've been following along with your reports. I usually buy almost any scrap released but I am wavering with this set. I think I will wait to hear reports on the general sound quality.
     
  14. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    If be surprised if there are any unreleased takes here. Or if there are any they likely will have been issued previously, and the claim on not being previously released in the US?

    This set appears like a cash-in on other CD mastering to me as well.
     
  15. mikeja75

    mikeja75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.S.
    I think there are a few unreleased takes to be found here -- not a ton, but they do appear to be offering at least some tracks that haven't previously made the rounds.

    Take "Down the Street to 301" for example.

    The track listing for CD 5 of this new set lists the following:

    Down the Street To 301 (Unreleased Alternate Track)
    Down the Street To 301 (Alternate Take)
    Down the Street To 301 (Alternate Take)
    Down the Street To 301 (Master Take)

    From my own spreadsheets (and yes, I have spreadsheets...you have too for these sessions!), I have six unique listings for the song. The recording was done on July 17, 1958 (second session) and includes the following:


    Take 1 (2:04)

    Outtakes (Bear) 3 CD set (D3T37)
    Complete Sun Sessions from Charly (D3T29)

    Take 2/FS (2:11)

    Outtakes (Bear) 3 CD set (D3T38)
    Johnny Cash at Sun (Sony 2014) (D4T21) (No FS on this version)

    Take 3

    Unissued

    Take 4

    Unissued

    Take 5 (Take used for Overdubs)

    Unissued

    Master Take (2:03) (Take 5 Used for Overdubbing Session with The Confederates at an unknown date (after 7/17/1958 obviously))

    Commonly available on most compilations:
    Complete Sun Sessions (Time Life)
    Now Here's Johnny Cash (VS) (Track 01)
    Bear Box Set 1954-1958 (D3T29)
    Walking the Line (D3T11)
    Johnny Cash at Sun (Sony 2014) (D4T22)


    If all of this information is true, then I'd assume that the two alternates on the new box will be take 1 and take 2 and the master take will obviously be the commonly available version with the overdubs. That leaves one additional track noted as being an "Unreleased Alternate Track" that doesn't fit into what is commonly known as being previously released -- so it's either take 3, 4, or 5. Hopefully it will be Take 5 since I'd like to have the undubbed master take.

    I've been digging into Johnny's Sun material and trying, as close as possible, to assemble a true complete set of the Sun Sessions. As I've been comparing tracks from a number of the discs that have been released throughout the years (I'm trying to stick to CDs outside of the 1984 Sunbox 103 from Charly), I've found a few takes and undubbed masters that don't appear to be identified on the few sites that attempt to list categorize these sessions.

    The discography on the hankwilliamsdiscography.com site is very helpful, but out-of-date. If anyone knows of a better site for this same type of material please post a link. I'm sure it's not an exact science trying to assign a 'take' number to all of the material but I don't agree with all of their findings. I hope to eventually post my findings here at some point to offer a list of the tracks and where they can be easily found today. Since the HWDiscography site was last updated, there have been a number of undubbed masters that have been released. At the very least maybe it would start some discussion and perhaps we can find even more tracks that are floating out there largely unknown.

    The pledge music campaign for this set is at 99% btw.
     
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  16. RETROLUXE

    RETROLUXE Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    @mikeja75

    Thanks for your updates on this Box-Set. Good to see there are some more Cash enthusiasts ;-) I also can not understand they made the tracklisting public.
     
  17. RETROLUXE

    RETROLUXE Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    I am afraid the version of »You're the Nearest Thing To Heaven« is the one from the Bear-Outtakes-Set with Cash dubbed his own voice?
    The undubbed master of »Born to lose« is on the Bear-Outtakes-Set, i am quite sure.
     
  18. mikeja75

    mikeja75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.S.
    You're correct about the undubbed version of "Born To Lose" -- it's easily available on the Complete Time/Life set and the Johnny Cash at Sun download set from Sony. Not a rarity and not unreleased.

    The third CD of the set on Pledge Music has three versions of "You're the Nearest Thing To Heaven"...one is the master take and one is, I assume, the undubbed take 4 that's on Time Life, Outtakes, Johnny Cash at Sun, etc. Then the new set also lists a third "unreleased alternate" -- I'm assuming that this is truly unreleased.
     
  19. RETROLUXE

    RETROLUXE Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    I am sorry to say that the take 4 of »You're the Nearest Thing To Heaven« available on different CDs is not really undubbed. It is dubbed by Cash's voice. I guess there is no real undubbed take 4 yet. I have to say i do not know the Time Life Box but on the Outtakes and on Cash at Sun by Sony, there is the Cash dubbed version. Johnnys voice overdubs are removed by the time the overdubs with the choir are made.
     
  20. mikeja75

    mikeja75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.S.
    Sorry -- you're correct. I'm just so used to thinking of Johnny's second vocal as part of the undubbed version and the version with the vocal group as being the overdubbed version. So if we could get the originally recorded version that would be a plus!

    Edit: The Time/Life set has the fully dubbed version.
     
  21. mikeja75

    mikeja75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.S.
    I'm knee deep in Johnny's Sun sessions right now and thought I'd post the track listings for the 5 discs of studio material that will be released with this pledge music set.

    Here's disc one with my notes/assumptions -- with the other four to follow soon:

    CD1

    1. Wide Open Road (Demo Version)
    2. Wide Open Road (Alternate Take)
    3. Wide Open Road (Unreleased Alternate Take)
    4. Wide Open Road (Master Take)
    5. You're My Baby (Acoustic Version)
    6. You're My Baby (Master Take)
    7. Folsom Prison Blues (Alternate Take)
    8. Folsom Prison Blues (Alternate Take)
    9. Folsom Prison Blues (Alternate Take)
    10. Folsom Prison Blues (Alternate Take)
    11. Folsom Prison Blues (Master Take)
    12. Hey Porter (Alternate Take)
    13. Hey Porter (Master Take)
    14. Two Timin' Woman
    15. Goodnight Irene (Master Take)
    16. Port of Lonely Hearts (Unreleased Version Added Reverb)
    17. Port of Lonely Hearts (Master Take)
    18. My Treasure (Early Demo)
    19. My Treasure (Acoustic Version)
    20. My Treasure
    21. Cry Cry Cry (Extended Version)
    22. Cry Cry Cry
    23. Home Equipment Company Advertisement with Luther Perkins
    24. Luther Played the Boogie (Master Take)
    25. So Doggone Lonesome (Unreleased Slower Take)
    26. So Doggone Lonesome (Master Take)
    27. Mean Eyed Cat (Master Take)
    28. I Couldn't Keep From Crying
    29. New Mexico (Originally Unissued)
    30. Rock 'n' Roll Ruby
    31. Get Rhythm (Acoustic Version)
    32. Get Rhythm (Master Take)
    33. Crescent City Blues (Gordon Jenkins)

    Wide Open Road:

    Track one: The demo version, is likely the version that dates from 'late 1954'. Available on a number of discs including the 1995 Charly "The Sun Years", the vinyl Sun Box 103, the Sony digital 'Johnny Cash at Sun' collection, The 1954-1958 Bear Box set, and the newer Complete Sun Sessions from Charly.

    Track two: Likely dates from 'probably March 1955' and is often labeled as Take 3. This version is on the Time Life set, Sony's 'at Sun' digital set, The Bear 1954-1958 set, The Road Less Traveled, and numerous others.

    Track Three: Labeled as an unreleased alternate track, but I'm guessing that we'll see the version that is either Take 1 or Take 2 from the 'probably March 1955' sessions and is found on 1995 Charly "The Sun Years" CD set and the Sun Box 103 Vinyl set.

    Track Four: Labeled as the Master Take so it'll either be the undubbed recording from 'Mid 1955' or the overdubbed version that was released on the 'Original Sun Sound' LP. The labels added to the tracks on the Pledge Site aren't very consistent so it's sometimes hard to tell what they are including.

    You're My Baby: I don't think that we're getting anything that hasn't already been released, but it's hard to know exactly what they'll include.

    Track Five: Labeled as "acoustic version". Could be the demo from Bootleg II or the acoustic version available on the Time/Life set, the Bear 1954-1958 set, the 1995 Charly "The Sun Years", and Sony's "At Sun" digital set.

    Track Six: Labeled as "master take". Could be the non Bootleg II version from above or the overdubbed version available on CD on the newer Complete Sun Sessions set from Charly and the 4 disc "The Collection" set. On LP, this overdubbed track is found on Rough Cut King Of Country Music from 1970.

    Folsom Prison Blues: Nothing much to see here I'm afraid. The four alternate takes likely are all found on the Bear Outtakes box set and the master take is on too many compilations to mention.

    Hey Porter: We'll get two takes of the track. The alternate take is available on the 2003 All Aboard the Blue Train CD from, the Bear 1954-1958 set, and the Bear Outtakes box set. The master take is available anywhere and everywhere (without the reverb).

    Two Timin' Woman: Could be either the undubbed or overdubbed version. I'm assuming that we get the undubbed version.

    Goodnight Irene: Undubbed vs. Overdubbed again -- I'm assuming we see the standard undubbed version.

    Port of Lonely Hearts: We're getting the master take which should be the version with a nice double tracked vocal from JC. In addition, they have a take labeled as "Unreleased Version Added Reverb". This could be Take 1 which, I believe, is currently not available. It could easily just be the master take with a layer of echo added -- perhaps it was readied for inclusion on a Sun album and discarded. We'll have to wait and see.

    My Treasure: I'm guessing that the 'early demo' version is the track currently found on Bootleg Vol. II and that the acoustic version will be take one. Track 20 will likely be the overdubbed version with a ton of reverb. Nothing new here.

    Cry Cry Cry: The extended version should be take 1 and is readily available. The second version should be the master take, I'd assume -- take 4. Take 3 is also out there to be had, but it's sounds so similar to take 4 it's not a track that I look at as a 'must have'.

    You can spot take 3 by listenting for a short 'stutter' in the playing around 1:21 and there is no errant guitar note after final "cry, cry, cry"...A/B a few versions and you'll start to hear the variation.

    Luther Played the Boogie: Just the master take. Nothing new. There are a few unissued takes of this track and it would be nice to get these if they still exist.

    So Doggone Lonesome: We get the master take and an 'unreleased slower take' -- and I do believe that this is truly unreleased. How 'bout that? Take 1 and 2 are unissued so I assume this new take will be from earlier in the same session for the song.

    Mean Eyed Cat: Again -- just the master take. Take 2. Take 1 exists and is available on the Charly LP "His Top Hits" but it's one of the few 'rare' tracks that I still need to seek out. It's not included on this set for what it's worth.

    I Couldn't Keep From Crying: Available on a number of compilations. Nothing new.

    New Mexico: The compilers of this set label this take as "originally unissued". I'm not sure what to make of this description since you can say that about a lot of these tracks. I'm assuming that this is the same, undubbed, version available on a number of different sets. It's a great recording but this is nothing new.

    Rock 'n' Roll Ruby: A (very) rough demo easily available. Nothing new.

    Get Rhythm: The master take of this track is great and available everywhere. They have a second recording labeled as 'acoustic version' -- I'm assuming that this will be the demo currently available on Bootleg II. I hope I'm wrong and they surprise as all with something new, but since it hasn't been labeled as 'unreleased' my hopes aren't very high.

    Crescent City Blues: A recording by Gordon Jenkins. Why include this? I get that Folsom Prison Blues 'borrows' from this track but it doesn't below here. If they were looking to pad out the set they could have added more Sun recordings.

    Disc two info to follow...
     
  22. mikeja75

    mikeja75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.S.
    Here are my notes on Disc 2:

    CD2 Track List:

    1. I Walk the Line (Demo)
    2. I Walk the Line (Alternate Take)
    3. I Walk the Line (Master Take)
    4. Train of Love (Alternate Take)
    5. Train of Love (Alternate Take)
    6. Train of Love (Master Take)
    7. Brakeman's Blues (Incomplete Take)
    8. There You Go (Master Take)
    9. One More Ride (Incomplete Take 2)
    10. One More Ride (Incomplete Take)
    11. One More Ride (Extended Version)
    12. I Love You Because (Undubbed Version)
    13. I Love You Because (Overdubbed Master)
    14. Goodbye Little Darlin' (Unreleased Alternate Take)
    15. Goodbye Little Darlin' (Master Take)
    16. Straight A's In Love (UMaster Take)
    17. Don't Make Me Go (Alternate Take)
    18. Don't Make Me Go (Alternate Take)
    19. Don't Make Me Go (Alternate Take)
    20. Don't Make Me Go (Alternate Take)
    21. Don't Make Me Go (Alternate Take)
    22. Don't Make Me Go (Alternate Take)
    23. Don't Make Me Go (Alternate Take)
    24. Don't Make Me Go (Alternate Take)
    25. Next In Line (Master Take)
    26. Give My Love To Rose (Alternate Take)
    27. Give My Love To Rose (Alternate Take)
    28. Give My Love To Rose (Alternate Take)
    29. Give My Love To Rose (Master Take)
    30. Johnny Cash Civil Defense Message


    I Walk the Line: The demo version is likely from Bootleg II while the alternate take is available on the Bear Family Outtakes set, the 1954-1958 box set, The '95 Charly Sun Years set, and the vinyl Sun Box 103. The master take is found everywhere.

    Train of Love: In looking at some of the past Sun discographies of Johnny's, you'll see that they show three alternate takes (not including the demo version from Bootleg II) and the master take. I think they are mistaken. I've only found three Sun versions (again, not including the early demo version): The first is, imo, from April 2, 1956 and the arrangement is noticeably different from the next two. This first alternate is found on BF 1954-195 (D1T25), BF Outtakes (D1T20), and Johnny Cash at Sun (2014 / D1T21). The next two versions date from May 8, 1956 and include an alternate take and then the master take. The alternate take (probably take 1 or 2 -- take your pick) is found on BF Outtakes (D1T19), Charly's 95 Sun Years set (D1T22), and the Sun Box 103 on vinyl (D2AT04 -- includes a false start). Take 3 -- the master take -- is included on numerous compilations. If there's another alternate take of "Train of Love" floating around I'd love to hear it, but I haven't found it yet.

    Brakeman's Blues: An incomplete take that's found on BF Outtakes (D1T14 - with false start), BF 1954-1958 (D1T21 - with false start), and Johnny Cash at Sun (D1T17 - no false start).

    There You Go: The master take. Available on numerous compilations. There you go.

    One More Ride: We'll get three versions here and one that truly might be unique to this compilation although they don't notate anything as 'unreleased'. They show two takes as being imcomplete and at least one of these will surely be the :50 snippet that's been released on BF Outtakes (D1T21), the 1995 Charly Sun Years set (D1T27), and Johnny Cash at Sun (D2T1). I'm not sure what the "Incomplete Take 2" will be -- I'm guessing that this is new and hasn't been previously released. I wish Johnny had finished a version of this track while at Sun since it really cooks -- I like the Columbia version but the Sun sound seems to be a better fit. Oh...the extended version is a lousy edit of the generally circulating incomplete take and it's lousy and has a horrible edit to somewhat simply repeat the same track twice before letting it come to it's fall apart ending. I'm assuming this was created to attempt to make a presentable master out of an incomplete take and it doesn't work. This extended edit is found on the BF 1954-1958 set (D1T28) and the Original Sun Sound Cd from Varese Sarabande released in 2003 (Track 18).

    I Love You Because: We get the undubbed and the overdubbed version. The undubbed version is available on a lot of releases: Charly's The Road Less Traveled (T12), BF 1954-1958 (D1T29), BF Outtakes (D1T22), and Johnny Cash at Sun (D2T2). The overdubbed version is also found on a ton of releases and features a screeeeetching lady that makes my head spin. Find it on BF 1954-1958 (D1T30), Up Through the Years (T11), Complete Sun Singles from Varese Sarabande (D2T8), and Johnny Cash at Sun (D2T3). There is an unissued take 2 that hasn't been released -- if it exists it would have been nice to get here. Oh well.

    Goodbye Little Darlin': Most of the discographies show one version being recorded. This undubbed version was then later used for the overdubbed version that is available on numerous compilations. I don't believe that the undubbed version has ever been released -- so if this compilation's "alternate take" is truly the undubbed version it'll be the first time that it's being released. Something new and always great to get another undubbed version.

    Straight A's In Love: One of my least favorite of Johnny's Sun output. This is the master take that will likely be the 'dry' version that is available on tons of compilations. The original album version had a nice layer of reverb added so that might pop up here too. The reverb version can be found on HDTracks on the 'Sings Hank Williams' album. There was a second take that was never issued -- it's not included here though (if it still exists).

    Don't Make Me Go: Eight takes of "Don't Make Me Go"! My guess is that we'll see a mixture of complete alternate takes along with some takes cut short, but who knows. All of these should be easily found on the BF Outtakes box set.

    Next In Line: I'm assuming that this will be the undubbed master take found on numerous compilations. There are two unissued earlier takes that would have been a nice fit here.

    Give My Love To Rose: We get four different takes here -- three alternates and the master take. The BF Outtakes set has three alternate takes and I'm assuming that all three of those will be presented here. There was a four alternate take noted on some discographies, but it remains unissued. Maybe it'll slip in here. The master take is available everywhere (I'm assuming that we'll get the undubbed version).

    In Summary: At worst, new to collectors will be a new version of "Goodbye Little Darlin'" and another incomplete take of "Once More Ride".
     
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  23. mikeja75

    mikeja75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.S.
    Here's Disc Three for you:

    CD3

    1. Home of the Blues (Undubbed Version)
    2. Home of the Blues (Overdubbed Master Take)
    3. Rock Island Line (Master Take)
    4. Wreck of the Old 97
    5. Wreck of the Old 97 (Master Take)
    6. Belshazah Intro KWEM
    7. Belshazah (KWEM Version 1955)
    8. Belshazah (Alternate Short Version)
    9. Belshazah (Undubbed Take)
    10. Belshazah (Overdubbed Master)
    11. When I Think of You (Demo)
    12. I'll Cry For You (Demo)
    13. I Just Don't Care Enough (To Carry On) (Demo)
    14. Leave That Junk Alone (Demo)
    15. Country Boy (Demo)
    16. Country Boy (Acoustic Version)
    17. Country Boy (Alternate Take)
    18. Country Boy (Master Take)
    19. Doin' My Time (Alternate Take)
    20. Doin' My Time (Master Take)
    21. If The Good Lord's Willing (Master Take)
    22. I Heard That Lonesome Whistle Blow (Master Take)
    23. Remember Me (Master Take)
    24. I Was There When It Happened (Unreleased Alternate Take)
    25. I Was There When It Happened (Alternate Take)
    26. I Was There When It Happened (Master Take)
    27. Ballad of a Teenage Queen (Acoustic Version 1)
    28. Ballad of a Teenage Queen (Acoustic Version 2)
    29. Ballad of a Teenage Queen (Acoustic Version 3)
    30. Ballad of a Teenage Queen (Master Take)
    31. Big River (Alternate Take with False Starts)
    32. Big River (Master Take)
    33. Don't Make Me Go (Live on the Jimmy Dean Show)
    34. So Doggone Lonesome (Live on the Jimmy Dean Show)
    35. Come In Stranger (Alternate Take)
    36. Come In Stranger (Master Take)


    Home of the Blues: The set is shown as having the undubbed version along with the overdubbed master take. There were three unique takes recorded for Home of the Blues and takes 1 and 2 are available. Take 3, used for the overdubbed session, has not (as far as I can tell) been released. So if this set includes the undubbed master I believe it will be new to collectors. My guess is that this won't be take 3 and instead will be something that we've already heard before.

    Rock Island Line: I'm sure this will be the undubbed take that has been found on many compilations.

    Wreck of the Old 97: We get two takes, both of which are readily available. Take one starts with "They gave him his orders at Monroe, Virginia, saying 'Steve you're way behind time'" while take 2 has "They gave him his orders at Monroe, Virginia, they said 'Steve you're way behind time"'.

    Belshazah: We get four different versions on this set. One is a live version -- which I'll skip. The undubbed take is availabl on the Time/Life Complete set (D2T13), Johnny Cash at Sun (D2T13), BF 1954-1958 (D2T11), etc. The Overdubbed take is also easily found on I Walk the Line (Collectables) (Track 22), the OSS/Blue Train 2for (track 07), and on HDTracks on the Original Sun Sound download. The real keeper here is the track labeled as "alternate short version" -- I'm assuming this is take one that was previously unissued. We'll have to wait and see.

    When I Think of You: I assume that this is from Bootleg II.

    I Just Don't Care Enough (To Carry On): Also from Bootleg II.

    Leave That Junk Alone: Record on August 1957 and available on Time Life (D2T20), JC at Sun (D2T16), BF 1954-1958 (D2T13), etc.

    Country Boy: We'll get four versions labeled as demo, acoustic version, alternate take, and master take. I'm guessing that we get nothing new here. I bet the demo version is found on Bootleg II, the acoustic version is the demo recorded in August 1957 and found on a number of compilations, the alternate version is take one and found on the BF Outtakes (D2T08), and finally we get the master take that's on too many releases to mention.

    Doin' My Time: We have an alternate and master take. The alternate will likely be take one found on BF Outtakes (d2T7) and the master take (take 2) is found all over the place. Take 3 remains unissued.

    If The Good Lord's Willing: Just the master take here. Nothing new.

    I Heard That Lonesome Whistle Blow: Master take again -- there's some alternate takes of this track but they were skipped over on this set.

    Remember Me: Again -- master take. Available all over the place.

    I Was There When It Happened: Three different takes: two alternates and the master take. I have two different versions and they are easy to distinguish. Take 1 has the following lyric at approximately :14: "whether you are saved" while take two has "whether we are saved". Take two seems to be the more common of the two. If there's a third alternate version of the track it should be new to collectors.

    Ballad of a Teenage Queen: The set has three 'acoustic' alternate takes and the master take. The master take should be the standard overdubbed version that is common and available everywhere. I'm not sure what they mean by 'acoustic alternate' -- my assumption is that these tracks will just be the undubbed alternate tracks...I might be prove wrong though.

    Big River: Two different versions are presented here. The master take is common and I'm assuming that the alternate version is the longer version with the extra verse that is found on the BF Outtakes set (D2T13) -- this version also has some false starts and that matches the description. There is an unissued Big River that probably will be skipped over here.

    Don't Make Me Go: Live on the Jimmy Dean Show.

    So Doggone Lonesome: Live on the Jimmy Dean Show.

    Come In Stranger: The standard alternate and master takes. Nothing new here -- the alternate take is on JC at Sun (D3T8), Charly's Sun Years box from 1995 (D2T20), BF 1954-1958 (D2T26), etc.

    Summary: A few tracks that could be new - Belshazah (Alternate short version) and I Was There When It Happened (Alternate) -- maybe the undubbed Home of the Blues.
     
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  24. I've been reading all your reports, thanks for posting them.
     
  25. mikeja75

    mikeja75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.S.
    Here's my comment on disc 4 of the pledge music box set -- this is where it starts to get messy! And just to clarify, I don't have the box yet. I'm just making assumptions on what could/might be included based on their descriptions and the known tracks that are available over numerous releases.

    CD4

    1. Guess Things Happen That Way (Alternate Take)
    2. Guess Things Happen That Way (Undubbed Master)
    3. Guess Things Happen That Way (Master Take)
    4. Oh, Lonesome Me (Undubbed Master)
    5. Oh, Lonesome Me (Overdubbed Master)
    6. Sugartime (Undubbed Version)
    7. Sugartime (Overdubbed Master)
    8. You're the Nearest Thing To Heaven (Unreleased Alternate Take)
    9. You're the Nearest Thing To Heaven (Alternate Take)
    10. You're the Nearest Thing To Heaven (Master Take)
    11. Born To Lose (Incomplete Take)
    12. Born To Lose (Undubbed Master)
    13. Born To Lose
    14. Always Alone (Rehearsal)
    15. The Story of a Broken Heart (Sun Demo)
    16. The Story of a Broken Heart (Alternate Take 2)
    17. The Story of a Broken Heart (Unreleased Alternate Take)
    18. The Story of a Broken Heart (Master Take)
    19. You Tell Me (Alternate Mix)
    20. You Tell Me (Master Take)
    21. Life Goes On
    22. You Win Again (Alternate Take)
    23. You Win Again (Alternate Take)
    24. You Win Again (Alternate Take)
    25. You Win Again (Undubbed Master)
    26. You Win Again
    27. Cold, Cold Heart (Alternate Take 2)
    28. Cold, Cold Heart (Master Take)
    29. Hey Good Lookin' (Undubbed Master)
    30. Hey Good Lookin' (Master Take)
    31. Hey Good Lookin'
    32. Hey Good Lookin' (Overdubbed LP Version)
    33. I Can't Help It (If I'm Still In Love With You) (Undubbed)
    34. I Can't Help It (If I'm Still In Love With You) (LP 1245)
    35. I Can't Help It (If I'm Still In Love With You)
    36. I Could Never Be Ashamed Of You (Undubbed Version)
    37. I Could Never Be Ashamed Of You

    Guess Things Happen That Way: The master take will be the commonly found overdubbed version while the undubbed version can be found on a few releases -- primarily Johnny Cash at Sun (D03T05), Songs That Made Him Famous CD from Varese Sarabande (2003 track 16), the BF 1954-1958 set (D2T27), and the BF outtakes set (D2T18). Some discographies list the two Bear Family releases as being track one, but I think all of the undubbed versions are take 6 which was later used for the overdub session. This set also lists an 'alternate take' and I can only guess that this is an alternate overdubbed version that can be found on the BF Outtakes set (D2 / Tracks 19 or 20). There are a number of unissued, non-overdubbed, takes that they could use here as well.

    Oh, Lonesome Me: Short and sweet. We get the undubbed and the overdubbed version. The undubbed version is easily available on Johnny Cash at Sun (D3T9), Time Life Complete (D2T19), Sun Box 103 on vinyl (D4AT2), BF 1954-1958 (D2T29), etc etc. The overdubbed version is also readily available on Johnny Cash at Sun (D3T10), Sun Box 103 (D4AT4), Charly's '95 The Sun Years (D2T26), etc etc.

    Sugartime: Again -- undubbed and overdubbed. The undubbed version is on JC at Sun (D3T11), Time Life Complete (D3T3), BF Outtakes (D2T22), BF 1954-1958 (D3T1), etc. The overdubbed version was completed in March 1961 after JC left Sun for Columbia and is found on JC at Sun (D3T12), Charly's The Sun Years (95) (D2T28), Walk the Line 3 CD Set (D1T13), and BF 1954-1958 (D3T05).

    You're the Nearest Thing To Heaven: The compilers show three takes of this song on the set: an Unreleased Alternate take, an alternate take, and the master take. I'm assuming that the master take will be the overdubbed version found on a number of releases. On HDTracks you'll find it on Sings the Songs that Made Him Famous and Now Here's Johnny Cash. It's also on Time Life Complete (D3T1), JC at Sun (D3T14), Charly's '95 Sun Years set (D3T2), and BF 1954-1958 (D3T3). The version that they label as "alternate" is likely the undubbed version (i.e. missing the Gene Lowery singers) that includes an overdubbed double track vocal from JC (much like "Port of Lonely Hearts"). I noticed that this version on the digital Johnny Cash at Sun Sony set also labels this as 'alternate' instead of undubbed. This version is easily available on JC at Sun (D3T13), Charly '95 Sun Years (D2T27), and BF Outtakes (D2T26). Hopefully the third track that is being offered, labeled as 'unreleased alternate take' is exactly there -- unreleased. I'm not showing any other variation available for this song and takes 1-3 are currently unissued so hopefully this will be new to collectors.

    Born To Lose: The undubbed version (take 3) is readily available on JC at Sun (D3T15), Time Life Complete (D3T4), and the BS 1954-1958 (D3T2). The overdubbed version (from March 1961) is found on JC at Sun (D3T16), Lonesome in Black (D2T4), and BF 1954-1958 (D3T4). The set also lists an incomplete take that is likely take one found on BF Outtakes (D2T23) -- it runs about 1:14.

    Always Alone
    : This is labeled as a 'rehearsal'. I'm assuming that this won't be the master take (which should be included at the very least) and I'm assuming that it's not a mixture of the various incomplete takes available on the BF Outtakes set (What are you doing Luther? Key of 'A' please..."). We'll have to wait and see on this one...

    The Story of a Broken Heart: We get four different versions of the track. They first list a 'Sun Demo' -- I have no clue what this could be. It's not labeled as 'unreleased' and I'm not aware of a JC demo for this track. Maybe it's a Tommy Blake recording (he wrote the song). We'll have to wait and see on this one. Next we get two alternate takes with one being labeled as unreleased. There are a number of available recordings from the sessions for this song -- including one that generally times out at over 6:00. My guess is that we'll see that in the 'alternate take 2' spot since other discographies have labeled this as take 2 in the past. The only alternate that appears to be unreleased is Take 5 -- which was used for the overdubbed master take. I've always had a problem with this since I simply don't hear any overdubbed vocals on the easily available master take -- not even subtle vocal overdubs. Maybe this release will finally answer that question for me. Finally, the master take is readily available on dozens of compilations. My favorite take is labeled as Take 3 and is a bit slower than the master take -- check it out on BF 1954-1958 (D3T6) or the Varese Sarabande Original Sun Sound release from 2003 (track 16).

    You Tell Me: We'll get the master take that's available everywhere (Time/Life, JC at Sun, Varese Sarabande's Complete Sun Singles, BF 1954-1958) and what is labeled as an 'alternate mix'. I'm not sure what they mean by this, but the only tracks that I show beside the master take are a couple of false starts on the BF Outtakes set (which combined total about :35 seconds). So if this is something truly unknown, I think it will be new to collectors...I'm just not sure where this alternate mix originated from or why they are labeling it as such.

    Life Goes On: No description here -- I'm assuming that we'll get the master take.You Win Again: They're not including the master take of "Always Alone" on this 6 CD set, but we get five versions of "You Win Again". Hoorah! Three alterate takes, an undubbed version, and what I assume will be the master take. I think the previously data known for this track from various online discographies is hard to follow. Most list four undubbed takes and then take 2 as being used for the May 27, 1958 overdub session...but then track 36 on disc 2 of the BF Outtakes set is listed on the hankwilliamsdiscography.com site as being take one while it's the exact same as track 9 on disc 3 of the 1995 Charly set which is listed as take 4. With me? So it's confusing. I may need to spend more time with this track to figure it all out, but I believe that there have been two undubbed versions released and two overdubbed versions released.

    The undubbed versions can both be found on the BF Outtakes set (with some false starts) and the version that I assume is the undubbed master take can also be found on the JC at Sun set (D3T21) and the BF 1954-1958 set (D3T13). To muddy the waters even further there are two versions that feature different vocal group overdubs -- you can find these on HDTracks (and other CD sources) on the Greatest! and Sings Hank Williams downloads. Summary: I think we might get an alternate take that wasn't previously released even though it's not noted as such on the Pledge Music website...With four alternate tracks listed it looks like it would match up to the sessionography that we currently have, but I think it will be the first time that some of these alternate tracks are being released. Like I said...this one is confusing and we'll have to wait and see.

    Cold, Cold Heart: We get what's listed as 'alternate take 2' and the master take. The master take includes an electric guitar and drum overdub and is found on Johnny Cash at Sun (D4T7), Time/Life Complete (D3T12), BF Outtakes (D3T3), and BF 1954-1958 (D3T17). There were two undubbed takes recorded -- most session sites list take 2 as being the master used for overdubbing and that it's unissued. I don't believe I have two unique takes, but I'd have to listen more closely. The undubbed versions that I have seem to be the same version used for the overdubbed version -- this can be found on the Lonesome in Black CD (D2T5), BF Outtakes (D3T4), and the 95 Charly Sun Years set (D3T11). I'm assuming that we don't get anything new here.

    Hey Good Lookin': Another confusing one. Take one is undubbed and found on BF Outtakes (D2T40) and the 1995 Charly Sun Years set (D3T12). This version usually, if not always, starts with Johnny saying "Bah Bah Bah" before the acoustic guitar kicks in. Take two is another acoustic take and is found on the CeDe release entitled "Hey Good Lookin' Vol. 3". There is another version that, to my ears, is simply take one with an overdubbed guitar and drums -- I might be wrong on that though. This is sometimes mentioned as being take 3. There are no vocal group overdubs on this mix. This can be found on the Time Life Complete set (D3T10), JC at Sun (D4T3), BF Outtakes (D2T39), BF 1954-1958 (D3T15), etc. Outside of the versions with the vocal overdubs, this is probably the most common version of the track to be found.

    Which takes us to two additional versions which include vocal overdubs. I believe they are using "take three" which includes the electric guitar and drums with an added vocal group. Version one is found on the Greatest! LP (and other CD releases) and a second overdubbed version is found on the Sings Hank Williams LP (and HDTracks). Leaving us with a total of five currently available versions of the song...but back to this compilation and the four versions it is offering. The first is labeled as undubbed master. I'm guessing that this will be take one. The next is the master take and I'm assuming that they are referring to take 3 which, to me, is simply take one with added electric guitar and drums (I might be wrong and this could truly be a unique take, but I doubt it). They also list a version as 'overdubbed album version'...well there's two of those, but I'm guessing that we get the version from the Greatest! LP since that is more common (I call it the 'doo wop' version). We have one remaining listing on the set that isn't labeled at all. It likely is take 2 (which isn't very common and would be a good inclusion here) or the alternate overdubbed version found on the Sings Hank Williams LP (and on HDTracks on the same album). Whew.

    I Can't Help It (If I'm Still In Love With You): This is getting long so I'll try to make it brief! This set offers three versions -- one is undubbed, another is labeled as 'LP 1245' (which should be the vocal group overdub, and finally, a third version with no description. The undubbed version is found on the Lonesome in Black set (D2T13) and the 1995 Charly Sun Years set (D3T13). What some people list as a 'take 2' I believe is simply take with a drum overdub. This version is found on JC at Sun (D4T5), Time Life Complete (D3T11), BF Outtakes (D3T1), and BF 1954-1958 (D3T16). This track, like Hey Good Lookin', has two versions with differing vocal group overdubs. You'll find version one on Sings The Songs That Made Him Famous and a second overdubbed version on Sings Hank Williams -- Sun 1245 is the Hank Williams so I assume that we'll get that version here.

    Last track!

    I Could Never Be Ashamed Of You: We get an undubbed version and one with no source data. The undubbed version should be take one and is found on JC at Sun (D4T1), Time Life Complete (D3T9), and BF Outtakes (D2T37). Then I assume that we'll get one of the versions with a vocal group overdub: Version 1 can be found on the Greatest LP (and HD Tracks) and version 2 is on Sings Hank Williams.

    Good for you if you made it this far -- things start to get muddy with all of the various versions and overdubs!

    That's it for Disc 4! I'll finish off with disc 5 once I have nap and let my brain regenerate.
     
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