Led Zeppelin Remasters in 2014+ to include 2nd disc of bonus material (Pt 8)

I don`t believe it has anything to do with the sample rate but is rather a byproduct of the heavy noise shaping required for DSD.

 

Just a note that the alternate In The Light is edited down. The b00ted track has a bit of ambiance on the front end, and plenty on the tail, but also about 5 measures were removed from the ending (not all together). Nothing substantial, of course, and if anything it tightens the track up a bit. All in all, a minute shorter, and in far better quality!

As for Kashmir, there is still phasing on the drums. As I mentioned, even the b00ted instrumental has phasing. It was probably recorded with phasing.

 

I don't think so. I could accept, say, a frequency response of some FIR filter used in DSD-to-PCM conversion, but what are the chances of that particular kind being used consistently by different recording labes / mastering houses?..

 

This one is really interesting - thanks @testikoff !

So if I read this correctly, it definitely indicates the increased bass energy many of us are hearing in the alt. version of Kashmir.

As for the waveforms on the bottom, if I didn't know better I would say you didn't volume-match the alt. Kashmir to the other two because it just looks louder overall. But of course you did volume-match it, so I'm guessing the added bass is what's making the waveform look louder overall, yes?

 

Thanks very much for this - I knew it was edited-down but at the same time I thought to myself, "There's no way in the world I'm hearing a full minute less of actual music than on the bootleg." Your explanation makes sense and clears up the mystery.

 

Note, that JD-mastered Driving Through Kashmir is a tad more dynamic than JD album version (track TT DR 10.2 vs 9.7). All 3 excerpts I used have the same loudness (track RG=-1.65dB).

 

I know they have the same loudness, I was just saying the waveform almost looks as though they don't - that's why I wrote, "But of course you did volume-match it."

And I am not surprised that the alt. version is a bit more dynamic - I think the final mixes of a lot of Zep tracks used some analogue compression (probably in individual tracks but who knows, maybe on the mix as a whole too), while these rough/working mixes don't have that compression (or at least not as much).

 

I don't think you can tell how loud the compared excerpts really are without checking waveforms with respective RMS graphs:

- Kashmir (BD):


- Kashmir (JD):


- Driving Through Kashmir (JD):


Plus DTK is an alternate mix & its waveform should look a tad different...

 

With my receipt of the latest Led Zeppelin remaster of Physical Graffiti, I thought it might be fun to spend a lovely Sunday with a sampling some Pinot Noir from my cellar, and A/B/C/D/E/F several versions of KASHMIR from the many versions I have... In fact as I gathered the source material, I was shocked at how many versions of KASHMIR I owned....probably more than 10, so I picked the top 4 or 5, and set down to have a critical listen.

I'm not sure if my system would be considered high end by the audiophiles here, but I place a premium on vintage equipment from the late 70's as I find it pleasing to try to recreate the systems from my youth, which I could not afford then! So I usually default to vinyl, because I love the separation of the instruments, and what I would call the realism.... I'm forced to admit I am a 55 year old sentimental fool for the audio equipment, music & artists of the 70's.... in this artificial world we live in now (and I say this as a former Engineer!) I hearken back to the authenticity of the artists from that era, which could actually compose, play, & sing live....

I have quite a few late 70's Marantz receivers (some fully restored, some original), and various JBL speakers from the same era scattered around my office, winery, wine cellar, living room etc etc.

I recently acquired a mint set of JBL L150A's (3 way with a passive radiator) and placed them in my living room listening area with a unrestored Marantz 1180DC, and a Pro*Ject 1.3 Turntable with a Sumiko Pearl Moving Magnet cartridge.

For Digital sources I have a Maverick Audio TubeMagic D1 DAC here, with the OPA627 OpAmp & GE5670W Tube upgrades.

Info on that here: http://www.mav-audio.com/base/product/tube_magic_d1

I did not change any tonal settings at all for these comparisons.

#1 HD download confirmed 96 kHz/24 bit, through my PC connect via USB to the Maverick D1, using the Tube.

Short Answer... loads of presence, bordering on shrill, but with no remarkable instrument separation or naturalness. I've bought all the deluxe editions of the recent LZ remasters, but this is the first time I've bothered to listen to the HD Digital versions.

#2 Same playback setup as before, CD version, mp3 275 kps Auto downloaded from Amazon, oddly enough I preferred this digital version to the Hi Res one.. Go figure!

#3 Crop Circles 1990 Vinyl .... way easier to listen to than the digital versions, but not noticeably better or remarkable in such a way that made me sit up and notice..... I do enjoy listening to this boxed set regularly, but in this comparison it was just average....

#4 2015 Vinyl Remaster R1535339 9698Z P.USA with scratched DL ... love, love ,love it... so glad Page has done this work..loads of separation, presence, virtually no surface noise.... Just lovely... I also ordered European version from Amazon UK, but it has not arrived yet, so we will see..

#5 1975 Mint Japanese pressing (P-6317N(I) ... OK I take it all back.... THIS IS THE DEFINITIVE VERSION.....man, what a difference... It's hard to put into words, but this is why one collects old vinyl, just head and shoulders above any of the other versions.... I luckily have a friend who lives in Japan, and he bought this for me recently for less than $20......

I also have an original 1975 Greek pressing, and the MotherShip Compilation, (which I love too) but after this Japanese pressing I could not go on....

I've been to Japan, and the people, culture, and food is amazing, but next time I go back it's gonna be a vinyl buying voyage....

 

Also, the drum track is the same as the original, no?

 

I find it odd that you would like the 2015 vinyl so much more than the 24/96 download given that the vinyl is taken from the same 24/96 master.

It tells me that you like the DACs that they used to cut the record more than you like your DAC since in theory they should sound almost identical.

 

Or simple the tonality of the cartridge used for playback... Changing the cartridge in my opinion has the same effect as fiddeling with EQ-settings.
Difference in tonality between dacs? well there are differences but they are not always that noticable.

You could easly mark your cartridges (if many) Bass-heavy, lean, trebly, analytical and so on. The difference between brands and models of cartridges are very noticable. I think this is what's going on here. I find many of them have extra built-in Omph for starters

 

No because of his description of what the download sounded like is not an eq issue its how well the DAC is converting.

 

I can't say for sure. All I know is that the spectral analysis of the hires Led Zeppelin remasters are consistent with what I've seen for files that have been in DSD format at some point. It's not just the spike jut below 30k but also the wide band of noise from above 20k reaching up to 40kHz. This never appears in PCM files. Check it out for yourself.

 

Could the initial tape-transfer been in DSD-format then?

 

Well, here is rather typical (in my experience) spectrum of non-filtered DSD64-2-PCM conversion:




The HF noise hump is there, but no pronounced tones...

The same track DSD64-2-PCM-converted with FIR30 (finite impulse response, 30kHz cutoff frequency) filter:


BTW, high frequency noise (similar to non-filtered DSD-2-PCM one) appears in 2L's master DXD files (LPCM 24/352) likely due to the fact that contemporary PCM ADCs are sigma-delta by nature...

 

Mrs. SammyJoe received my order from Amazon.fr in the morning (containing Super Deluxe + other formats also) but I will have to wait until I get home from work.
Definitely looking forward to this and I currently have the original UK-pressing on vinyl, so of course Im going to do little comparisons..

 

Yes. Give it another listen and you will hear it for sure
I believe testikoffs analysis shows why the alt. version sound punchier (and better imo)

 

Thank you so much testikoff. Very revealing albeit not surprising...

 

I noticed that there is a brief "noise" at the front of Night Flight, that wasn't present on the 1994 CD. I thought at first that it was due to a bad indexing, but no, the previous track was already faded to silence. Is this little noise present on any other versions?

 

I've heard it on the hi-res version, I'm not sure how you're listening to it, i.e. vinyl, CD, hi-res.

 

That was intentionally there on the original album but removed from the Marino versions.

 

A

Agreed, this would have been more intersting if Page had released more of the bootleg stuff.
I'm done with collecting Zeppelin reissues, i have all the original albums and the last batch of cds, i rarely ever play them.
I will most likely pick up Coda and that's it.

 

My obsessiveness is driving me to go out and get PG. I'm only interested in the 2 cd set....

Having been disappointed in the sound of previous cd issues....what do you say...should I get the new one ? Will I be astounded at the sound quality ?

 

Most of us like it. Some don't.