Groovetracer ROCKS!!!!

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by timztunz, Jan 25, 2015.

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  1. liptrot

    liptrot Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    I have the tt psu as well. I was going to upgrade to rp6 but now hear no reason to. Changed sub platter and cart at same time so hard to tell what made the biggest difference but I suspect the cart. The two upgrades together are dramatic.

    I have a small nic in my glass platter. Doesn't seem to impact anything but now thinking of changing platter. Sounds like mixed reviews on platter upgrade.
     
  2. Vernoona

    Vernoona Well-Known Member

    I'm in the same boat, I have a P3-24, with all of the Groovetracer products, a Dyna 20x2l cart, TT-PSU and a great phono stage. I absolutely love what I hear. no urge to upgrade at all.

    going to the RP6 would probably mean the arm of the turntable is upgraded ever so slightly, but I can't justify thousands of dollars to get another 3% improvement.
     
  3. dianos

    dianos Forum Resident

    Location:
    The North
    Not just the arm has better tolerances. The plinth is a different animal both in finish and stiffness and the feet at least look better. The platter is also better (flywheel effect). You can buy the plinth in separate if wanted and the platters I'm sure you know about already :)
     
  4. Trashman

    Trashman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Has anyone done comparitive needledrops to show us the sound difference of a Rega both with, and without, the Groovetracer sub-platter...assuming all other factors (cartridge, phono amp, etc) remained the same? It would be interesting to hear how significant any improvement would be.
     
  5. TeflonScoundrel

    TeflonScoundrel Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I've got a VPI Scout with the Soundsmith Zephyr and a stock RP3 with the Ortofon 2M Blue. The Scout is a quality table for sure, but I'm leaning towards selling it to get something more simple to setup and use hopefully without losing much by way of performance. If I can, I'd use the proceeds to either get an RP6 or make my RP3 my main turntable and add the TT-PSU, white belt and Groovetracer sub-platter. I keep going back and forth, and it sounds like opinions vary quite a bit on this issue from what I have seen. Perhaps that means there is a difference, but it's not major? If there's anyone that has or has had both tables, I would love to hear your opinion. I haven't found an opportunity to hear the RP6 yet, so hopefully I'll be able to do so at some point and figure it out for myself.
     
    timztunz and Long Live Analog like this.
  6. Long Live Analog

    Long Live Analog Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Tn. Mid South
    I'm in the market for a new deck, gonna keep the P25, been looking and listening to Linn, Merrill, Project, Rega, VPI. All in the $3,000-$6,000 range with +'s and -'s, the more I think about it I like the idea of a RP6 tricked out with all the GT mods plus it's a set/forget deck I could live with and spend the rest on vinyl....
     
    timztunz likes this.
  7. timztunz

    timztunz Audioista Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    Wise, wise man. I've got a VPI Classic 3 in a Reference System and a GT tricked out RP6 in a 2nd system in Brasil and I love them both. I don't expect them to perform the same or sound the same. One system is worth 5 times the other one, of course they would perform differently. But I'm increasingly impressed with the RP6 and GT mods, and that "set/forget" aspect is REALLY growing on me!
     
  8. Long Live Analog

    Long Live Analog Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Tn. Mid South
    Thank you for the kind words my friend, as you know sometimes less is more. Lots of excellent decks out there at different price points. I'm impressed with all the decks I mentioned but one thing I don't like is constant tweaking/fiddle fiddle/upgrades path that never ends. Been there, done that, I just wanna listen to my vinyl
     
    timztunz likes this.
  9. Vernoona

    Vernoona Well-Known Member

    I'm not really a fan of the glossy black finish. nor the brace. im sure it's a great sounding table though and one that if be perfectly happy with. thing is I'm already perfectly happy with the performance of my P3-24. she turns 8 this year and it still looks brand new.

    [​IMG]

    I love the simplicity of this table. nothing fancy, it's just a work horse that delivers every time.

    plus, I'd rather sink my money into a quality cartridge every 3-4 years. currently using the 20X2L..... tempted to try the XX-2 next
     
    mikeyt, octaneTom, dianos and 3 others like this.
  10. It sure does. These sound amazing tonight. Two weeks with the Groove

    [​IMG]
     
    Gavinyl, jon9091, dianos and 3 others like this.
  11. Long Live Analog

    Long Live Analog Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Tn. Mid South
    Mazzy, that's some nice slabs of vinyl you're spinning, glad the GT subplatter is working out for you...
     
    timztunz likes this.
  12. scotto

    scotto Senior Member

    OK, color me stunned.
    After considering the Groovetracer upgrade for awhile now, but putting it off, we finally pulled the trigger (thanks to prompting from this thread and some conveniently timed birthday money) on the reference sub-platter, record weight, and delrin platter for the P5. I got the counterweight a few years ago for a different 'table, so I already knew these products would be well built, functional works of art.
    The platter is back ordered, but the sub and weight showed up yesterday and were responsible for me 'n' the wife staying up way too late playing cut after cut and continually pulling our jaws up off the floor. We played everything from audiophile reissues to well-recorded originals to cuts that are busy, muddy, or otherwise total hash (thank you Mick Ronson) and the added clarity, detail, and bass were astounding. Hearing old familiar favorites--Astral Weeks, Blue, "Helpless"--like we were hearing them for the first time brought tears to our eyes.
    Dollar for dollar, this is the best audio investment we've made.
     
  13. Long Live Analog

    Long Live Analog Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Tn. Mid South
    Scotto, you'll really be stunned when the delrin platter arrives I also recommend the GT counterweight for your P5 to complete the Groovetracer synergy...
     
    timztunz likes this.
  14. scotto

    scotto Senior Member

    I'm thinking about it. We originally got it for a Michell Gyro SE with the Zu modded Denon DL-103 with the heavy body. But it's been mothballed, so might as well go with the full suite of Groovetracer upgrades on the P5.
     
  15. timztunz

    timztunz Audioista Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    I finally got around to processing the photos I took during my upgrade to Groovetracer’s Reference Subplatter and Delrin Platter, and I wanted to share the experience here. First I need to explain a little bit about this system. It is a second system I’ve been assembling in Brasil where I spend half my time. For several years as a member of this forum I’ve seen many a member voice their travails at obtaining the audio gear they want in their home country. I can assure you that I understand those difficulties far better than I care to. I can tell you that for Brasil, IF you can find something other than discount store electronics (think WalMart), the selection is going to be severely limited and very expensive. I finally came upon a place in Sao Paulo who is a dealer for Rega. I’ve always liked Rega, never owned any but have been impressed hearing different pieces in different systems over the years. Traveling back and forth from the US to Brasil I’ve learned that for the best quality at the most reasonable prices I have to bring from the US. You would be amazed at the things I’ve moved in luggage. But some things are just too onerous to bring in a suitcase. So I purchased the amp (ELEX-R), speakers (RS5) and turntable/cartridge (RP6 w/ Exact) from them and had it shipped from Sao Paulo to Vitoria. I paid WAY too much for them and the TT/Cart were their demo models just recently set up. But I added a new CD/DAC (Saturn-R), all cabling and Groovetracer upgrades all brought in luggage from the US. I even brought a VPI 16.5 in a BIG suitcase! Ok, that’s the back story. On to the upgrades. I first wanted to experience the Rega system as Rega had intended so about the first 150 hours were stock except for the Groovetracer Center Weight and Counterweight. If you look at my other system you will see that it’s significantly “more” in every regard, including the space that it’s enjoyed in. But I have to tell you, that even my first impressions of this all Rega system were, “Wow, this isn’t too bad at all.” Quite a lot happened in this thread during that time. Other people talking about their experiences with Frank and Groovetracer and all the great input just kept getting me more and more excited along the way. But I still wanted a period of time with the “stock Rega sound” so I had something concrete to measure against once I installed the upgrades.


    Then was the day to take the leap. I hope these photos show up ok. Most are self-explanatory…..like Before I started, with the felt mat removed and only the glass platter, the old subplatter, a couple of comparison photos of the two subplatters (although there really is no comparison), the new subplatter installed, the new Delrin Platter and finally all of the Groovetracer upgrades together including the Center Weight and Counterweight.


    There is one more side story to be told here. Remember that I mentioned that a lot has happened in this thread and the fact that the RP6 was a demo? One of the things that happened in the thread was that I was introduced to Turntabulator. I had never heard of this app before. But I will tell you that with the very first piece of vinyl that I played after setting up the system for the first time, I thought to myself, “Does that sound like its dragging, running slow?” When I got Turntabulator and used it for the first time (and 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc.) it reported 33.2rpm. I was bummed. Nothing I could figure out was making any sense. I finally gave up and thought it was something I would have to deal with later and was probably the result of bad electricity. Did I mention infrastructure instability in other countries? Although that as a cause was confusing to me due to the TT power supply feature of the RP6. Ok, fast forward to the part of the Subplatter upgrade where you are instructed by Groovetracer to use the supplied magnet to reach down into the shaft well and remove the stock Rega steel ball bearing so you can insert the new Groovetracer Zirconia ball. Imagine my surprise to find that THERE WAS NO STOCK REGA STEEL BALL BEARING in there at all! The stock subplatter was just grinding in the bottom of the shaft well with no ball bearing! No wonder it ran a little bit slow! I can only assume that somehow the original ball bearing got left out of the original setup from the dealer. But alas, properly installed and oiled up Zirconia ball and we’re spinning at EXACTLY the correct speed!


    I have to mirror the comments of so many others relative to the improvements in sound quality. Tighter bass, WAY blacker background and noise floor, wider, taller and deeper soundstage, more organic…….all are things that impressed me. This is in a pretty lively space anyway and there were some things that needed toned down a bit anyway. These upgrades just put everything much more comfortable in its skin. The changes from upgrading to the Reference Subplatter and Delrin Platter were not slight. I’ve seen it written by others words like “jaw dropping”. If there had been anyone else at home with me at the time I would have looked at them and asked, “Are you freakin’ kidding me? This is an amazing difference.”


    There are some who say (or think), “If these upgrades make such a noticeable improvement why doesn’t Rega just do it in the first place?” Although I don’t necessarily agree with them, I do know something of the math used by equipment manufacturers to determine selling price calculated upon cost. In that respect it seems to me that having all of Groovetracer upgrades I did would set the price of this TT at another US$2k-US$3k. I can tell you that at that price I would not have purchased an RP6. So you see, I don’t begrudge Rega for not including them in the first place, nor do I begrudge Frank at Groovetracer for making a niche market for himself with incredibly good products providing exciting results at a great value. For this listener Groovetracer’s products took this turntable setup from, ““Wow, this isn’t too bad at all.”…….to, “Holy Crap! This is freakin’ awesome!”

    BEFORE - With stock Glass Platter and felt mat removed
    [​IMG]

    Stock subplatter removed (this is where the missing ball bearing was discovered, or not discovered I guess). Compare stock subplatter to Groovetracer Reference Subplatter......Really? Not much comparison in reality.
    [​IMG]

    Compare stock subplatter to Groovetracer Reference Subplatter......other side. Notice the Sapphire insert in the end of Reference Subplatter shaft upon which it rides the Zirconia Ball.
    [​IMG]

    Groovetracer Reference Subplatter installed with Rega White Upgrade Belt
    [​IMG]

    AFTER! - Rega RP6 w/ Exact Cartridge fully tweaked with Rega White Belt and Groovetracer Upgrades of Centerweight, Counterweight, Reference Subplatter and Delrin Platter. This rig is pretty sweet! Next up......Gingko Cloud 14A Vibration Platform!
    [​IMG]
     
  16. timztunz

    timztunz Audioista Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    And finally, the system it sits in........
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Gabe Walters

    Gabe Walters Forum Resident

    Is there any reason why the Groovetracer wouldn't work on a Pro-Ject Debut deck? The underside of the stock Rega subplatter looks an awful lot like the Pro-Ject subplatter.
     
  18. dianos

    dianos Forum Resident

    Location:
    The North
    Wow! I'm jealous! :) If I didn't already have the RP8 glass platter on my RP6 I would go for a change to that Delrin one. I've been staring on that counterweight too long now.. Maybe I should go ahead and buy it?
     
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  19. timztunz

    timztunz Audioista Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    I couldn't tell you. But I'll bet Frank at Groovetracer could.
     
  20. timztunz

    timztunz Audioista Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    I can only tell you that there is a much greater feeling of "stability" in manual movements of the tonearm after the Groovetracer Counterweight was installed. I realize that's not very scientific sounding, but it just "feels" better and quite honestly, just looks badass!
     
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  21. Long Live Analog

    Long Live Analog Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Tn. Mid South
    timztunz, congrats on GT upgrades on the RP6, its a great deck especially with the mods. I'm digging the decor, nice
     
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  22. scotto

    scotto Senior Member

    Damn!
    Got the Delrin platter yesterday and--once again--was amazed at what this has done for the P5. We already had the sub-platter and record weight, so sort of knew what to expect, but holy cow! I'm trying to refrain from gushing and using well-worn audiophile cliches, but this combination is truly awesome: highs and lows appeared out of nowhere and the added detail is almost scary.
     
  23. dianos

    dianos Forum Resident

    Location:
    The North
    How many of you using the GT counterweight disengage the VTF spring (above 3)? I tend to like the sound the best when using the dial as normal on my RP6 but that is not what is recommended by GT.
     
  24. tim185

    tim185 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    I'm interested in this too. Just ordered the GT counter weight, and I have only just found out about this mod as well. I'm curious as to what it sounds like when this spring supposedly vibrates when you adjust VTF using the dual. Apparently disengaging this spring is where the improvement comes from.
     
  25. jordanb87

    jordanb87 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Winnipeg, Canada
    So, I've had about 2 weeks with a Groovetracer Reference subplatter on my P3-24. I'm hearing more vocal presence, more detail with things like percussion and background vocals, and better decay on guitars and cymbals. Tracks that fade out with strings now do so linearly, with no wow/flutter audible. Due to the entry-level nature of my audio system, I won't say the improvement is jaw-dropping, but I can see how this subplatter in a higher-end system would have that effect. I'm glad I got this upgrade to correct the speed issues with my turntable, as I now feel more comfortable slowly moving forward with other upgrades (phono pre, cartridge). Now, if only we could get modern pressing plant quality control in line!

    I also had a good experience dealing with Frank. He responded to emails quickly and the item was shipped within the time frame promised. However, it would be nice if he added stock information to the Groovetracer website. He's been out of stock of the Standard and Deluxe subplatter models since early March, and it might be helpful for people to know up front. Anyway, all in all a worthwhile upgrade, so add me to the list of satisfied Groovetracer customers.
     
    octaneTom likes this.
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