A question on Genesis's Archive 1967-1975

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Darby, Mar 2, 2015.

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  1. Darby

    Darby Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    UK
    Have all the vocals on the live Lamb tracks really been re-recorded in a studio in 1997 by Gabriel? In a sense would uou sa, the live lamb tracks is basciall a Lamb Lies Down on Broadwa done in 1997? Because it doesn't seem to be just the vocals, guitars, bass etc, overdubbed.

    Why on earth would you re-edit a live performance like that to begin with, the whole point of it is capturing a band at that time, surely it strips all the atmosphere from that period and brings a whole new atmosphere from a 1997 studio. Any ideas or thoughts on the boxset?
     
  2. Kim Olesen

    Kim Olesen Gently weeping guitarist.

    Location:
    Odense Denmark.
    Some of the vocals were rerecorded. A few of Steves guitars were. Nothing else to my knowledge.
     
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  3. Phase1

    Phase1 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Yeah it's a bummer that it isn't a genuine live recording from 1975, but the band wanted to present us kids with something they felt was more listenable...

    When you adjust your expectations and accept the release for what it is, you'll find that it is immensely enjoyable.
     
  4. ProgDave74

    ProgDave74 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    If I'm not mistaken, Gabriel actually re-recorded all of the Lamb, and possibly a few other songs from the 3rd disc. However, "they" didn't use all of the re-recorded vocals. I believe when "they" were mixing the album, they went back and forth between the old and new vocals. There's some fairly detailed analyses on the interwebs, but I don't know how accurate they really are.

    By the way, I think it was closer to 1995 than 1997...that set was delayed many times, due at least in part due to Collins leaving the band and the uncertainty that brought on. The band didn't want the archive to come too close to Calling All Stations. (I think there also may have been clearances and negotiations on some of the earlier stuff too).
     
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  5. bRETT

    bRETT Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    It's very easy to hear where the old and new vocals are. Notably different register.
     
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  6. SoporJoe

    SoporJoe Forum Resident

    Location:
    British Columbia
  7. Darby

    Darby Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    UK
    How bizarre... thanks.
     
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  8. Daniel Plainview

    Daniel Plainview God's Lonely Man

    Yeah, Old Man Gabriel's vocals stand out like a sore thumb. While I was disappointed in a way, I can also see it as the only time Peter has revisited this material so it's kinda like a karaoke Genesis reunion, which is sorta nice... in a way.
     
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  9. RollinHard843

    RollinHard843 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Fort Worth, TX
    What's interesting to me, is that some of these Lamb performances are bonus tracks on "Genesis Live" from the Live Box set. These for the most part use the re-recorded vocals as well, which I was disappointed with at first. Then I heard "Back in NYC" and there's some parts towards the end that cut to the original performance, and they ARE pretty bad. You can hear it in the last verse, and his voice is cracking trying to hit those notes and still have that snarly edge to his voice that the song requires. I guess we have to imagine that the performance was TERRIBLE and that PG's decision makes it more listenable. Some of these songs were probably sung through masks and costumes and might not have been very audible anyway.

    I think the Supper's Ready performance on the Archive Box is MOSTLY newer vocals, but they're not all new. This same performance is on the bonus disc that comes with the 1970-1975 box set, and it has more of the original vocal performance. But of course, it's not ALL the original performance. The older vocals sound better here than on Back in NYC.
     
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  10. Darby

    Darby Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    UK
    True points but it just seems pointless at all to do this, I would rather just a re-recorded Lamb than messing around with a live peformance to that degree, its the imperfections that makes it what it is. Gabriel is singing in 1975 as those characters, hes in the moment, where as a whole different older Gabriel whose vocals are quite noticeabll different pops in and out of the same tracks just doesn't work in the sense of selling it as a Lamb live recordings from 1975, it really isn't that is it...
     
  11. SoporJoe

    SoporJoe Forum Resident

    Location:
    British Columbia
    I don't know, I really like this version of The Lamb. It's actually my "go-to" version!
     
  12. SirNoseDVoid

    SirNoseDVoid Forum Resident

    I know about all the overdubs, but I also like this version better than the original studio album.
     
  13. RollinHard843

    RollinHard843 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Fort Worth, TX
    Yeah, it really would be nice to hear the original performance so I could pick a favorite version. As long as I get to listen to Phil's original drum performance, I'm pretty happy.
     
  14. I thought the issue was that Gabriel couldn't get the microphone close to his mouth in one of his costumes so parts of the vocals weren't really recorded in the first place?
     
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  15. RollinHard843

    RollinHard843 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Fort Worth, TX
    Could be. It's been a while since I read about that stuff.
     
  16. squonkduke

    squonkduke Forum Resident

    Location:
    Roma, Italy
    It's more or less 50% old and 50% new gabriel's vocals, very few overdubbed guitar passages (a couple on some of the Rainbow tracks from disc 3 as well) and nothing more.
    It's far better this way than the original unedited live recording, there's no doubt for me. It wouldn't have been releasable that way in my opinion.
     
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  17. The Slipperman

    The Slipperman Forum Resident

    I agree, although I made my own Lamb live mix tape with The Waiting Room from Dortmund 1975, was a fantastic jam. The other thing that bugs me is that the grand finale is faded down instead of a climactic finish, so I edited in the real original It from the show. Everything else I use this Archive version for and it's good!
     
  18. it from Archive 67-75 is an alternate studio take and not a live track
     
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  19. Tim1954

    Tim1954 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH
    Having heard the original, unedited recording of the Shrine show on Wolfgang's Vault, I would have to completely disagree.
     
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  20. bleachershane

    bleachershane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    As far as I remember that's because the tape ran out and 'it' wasn't captured...
     
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  21. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    I have heard conflicting stories about how much of Gabriel's vocals were re-recorded; some say most of the live set, some say a few tracks. I remember being so turned off by it that I sold the box set; which of course I now regret. There was some good stuff on that set. Too bad it is OOP.
     
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  22. rstamberg

    rstamberg Senior Member

    Location:
    Riverside, CT
    ARCHIVE '67-'75 is out of print now. Damn. I never got it.
     
  23. Darby

    Darby Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    UK
    It's still available as an MP3 download on iTunes etc...
     
  24. The Slipperman

    The Slipperman Forum Resident

    That's what the notes on the Archive set said but it can't be true. The original It is on the wolfgangs vault version of this show.
     
  25. Wally Swift

    Wally Swift Yo-Yoing where I will...

    Location:
    Brooklyn New York
    I have the original recording with the original vocals. Yes, they were definitely rerecorded. It's utterly ridiculous. But then again so is the editing of the "Great Lost Live Album".
     
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