The Great USB cable debate poll

Heck, less than 10% of active members contribute to this website, so for the rest, unsolicited insight, is free...

 

Analog cables can and do make a difference in sound in some applications, and nobody in this thread is in the all-amps-sound-the-same camp. That last part about amps in particular coupled with the fact you're candid about not using USB cables makes me wonder if you didn't just wade in here looking for an e-brawl.

 

It doesn't matter. The point is, it's all digital -- the effects observed by those pimping (or defending) the expensive cables are not characteristics that can be affected by better quality materials. That's the point I was making.

 

This post seems consistent with a problem in this thread, somebody produces an isolated technical fact about a digital cable or transmission technology without drawing a clear parallel to why it would make an audible difference or if what's being discussed is even an argument used by makers of boutique USB cables.

 

Yep. Most objectivists I know on the various fora would say the same too. Differences? Sure! Amps? Yep, differences there too.

It's a trite little epithet that some trot out. Perceived wisdom yet again. And yes, I think you nailed it with the last bit.

 

"THIS-IS-AWE-SOME"
*clap clap clapclapclap*
"THIS-IS-AWE-SOME"
*clap clap clapclapclap*

 

It does matter because they would be different methods of communicating.

But it turns out, USB does use diffenential pairs to communicate. I did not know that.

 

Power and ground.

 

No, it doesn't, because they are both transferring digital data. You can't use unicorn blood to alter the soundstage or tone of a FLAC being transferred digitally.

Your point? This will not affect the sound aside from potentially introducing obvious noise or corrupting the bitstream and causing errors. Again, none of this will alter the attributes expensive cables claim they do.

 

You can transfer digital audio files through various USB cables at various price points all day long, and compare the MD5 signatures on the copied files, and they will match the source files.

The MD5 signatures will match using the cheapest of the cables, and the most expensive of the cables.

You can repeat the test thousands of times, and get exactly the same result every single time.

There really shouldn't be any additional discussion about some USB cables "sounding" better than others - it is pure rubbish.

I'll go so far as to say folks who do think a USB cable can alter sound quality don't really understand the basic principles of digital audio.

 

Same point I've made a number of times previously. But for the purposes of this response, it is not all digital. Let’s forget the claims of expensive cables. Let’s assume that digital works just as we know it does. What is left? Can we absolutely say that the power and ground signals can’t affect anything but the digital signal in the cable? What about the components they are connected to? This is my line of inquiry.

 

I hear what you are saying but in my experience transferring digital audio files through varying qualities of USB cables can have an audible difference. Have you ever experimented with different USB cables to see if you heard any difference or is this all theoretical?

 

Well to be fair, just copying the files isn't going to be isochronos so there would definitely be error correction. Not that this derails your basic point, because it all circles back to the fact that it would be trivial to test cables and report relative error rates, including errors caused by problem with power that may or may not actually be a problem.

 

Here's an article from some years ago in Sound on Sound magazine. While this discusses pro-audio in the main, the issues are similar. In this case, the article talks about ground loops in digital audio connectors and describes some of the noises you can expect to hear.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb09/articles/qa0209_2.htm

 

I can't make broad application from this, but it does somewhat foster the idea that a less than stellar DAC might pick up noise from a USB cable—not from corrupted data but from a ground loop. I know the ever popular auto metaphor is not always as applicable as some think, but I did have an experience with a car where improved grounding allowed the 32-bit computer to work more efficiently, thus allowing the injection system to work with greater efficiency. The change was easy enough to document, although I am linking some cause and effect situations that are complete speculation. Still, I wonder about DACs and how they might perform differently if the circuits that tend to error correction, jitter etc are drawing less power because they are less in use.

 

Except the issue isn't noise. It's all this marketing audio file Mumbo jumbo rubbish they are claiming. Extended low end , less grain etc and all those lies.

 

I think he's referring more to studio applications with the multitude of hardware in use. With home audio and the lesser loads, both electrically and music audio itself, there is less of an issue. The excellent GB Audio site describes the issue of ground loops thus (of course we are getting away from USB cables here, but I think we are seeing that the issues are less to do with data transmission, but poor quality cable construction and low quality DACs for home audio - seeing as you need to look long and hard to find really bad examples of both, these are not issues that will typically bother most audio users and assuming their electricity supply is of a good standard):-

http://www.gbaudio.co.uk/data/ground.htm

 

And of course, that gets us right back to being curious about it all. And when you get curious about the mystical wonder of it all, you tend to find you land square in the lap of cold, hard, electrical facts. Chuh!

 

Can anyone having issues with noise maybe upload a file that is characteristical in that regard?

 

I know ground issues pretty well. DACs work with flicker and thermal. Am I right in assuming that these issues are related to the DAC circuits and would not relate in any way to power issues with a connecting cable?

 

I was referring to the person who claimed that they could switch out a Mcintosh amp with a low-end consumer amp and not hear any difference. That's just... Words fail.

I don't use USB for audio, no. I use Thunderbolt and AES/EBU or AES3 for computer audio.

 

The closest I could come is to plug my HDMI line into my CD player. I get a horrible hum, but this is not what you are asking for, and what you are asking for is not what is being discussed at the moment.

 

So what's the score? I can't vote because I haven't tried any cables and don't listen to music through a computer. I have heard the difference in other interconnects so open minded here.

Seems a little odd to make people vote before they can see the results when this type of thread would be most useful to those who haven't tested this for themselves! Makes me wonder how many people have just... guessed to see the results?

 

You're asking for an absolute answer with an absolute question and I can't answer that I'm afraid. I'd suggest that the requirements and management of competently designed hardware will manage power/grounding issues within the design. The cable is almost incidental (IMO) beyond that which is required by the USB standard and the function it's required to satisfy.