Fugees The Score on vinyl - 2014 reissue?

I noticed new copies of The Score at a local shop that weren't the Music on Vinyl reissue, which they also had but was $40 as opposed to $30. I had been holding out for an original after reading elsewhere here that it is an all analog pressing.

I was hoping to find out more at home but I can't find any news about a 2014 reissue. If I can remember it seemed to be released by Sony US. There was also a version available only at Urban Outfitters....maybe there is now a wider release.

Anyone know anything?

 

Hmm. I've never heard that the original pressing was all analog, but I'd be interested in finding out. I have seen this pressing at my local shop for $30, and they also had the MOV for $40. I figured that they use the same stampers, but unfortunately don't really have info on either pressing.

 

Can't help you out on the question OP, but the original of The Score does sound like it's all analog - highly recommended.

 

I'm pretty sure this is the same as this 2012 Version that is described as an Urban Outfitters exclusive. The bar code numbers are the same.

As for the original being all analog - it is listed by mikemoon in this thread on 90s analog vinyl:

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/90s-all-analog-mastered-original-vinyl.300410/

 

Just to be clear, some of those in my list are "uncertain" but I'm just going off pure sound quality. I know a lot original pressings in the 90s were cut from the CD masters. Some are hard to tell honestly and some, while they may sound good, do sound CD sourced.

I'd suspect that the MOV is likely a high res transfer from the original masters. It could be original stampers though. I'd guess it sounds really good.

The other thing to consider is that a lot of hip-hop recordings involved digital in the mix but I'm not sure which one's exactly. I guess it is case by case.

 

OK thanks for clarifying. The next time I see the new issue I think I will pick it up.

I have noticed there are often MOV titles released in the EU and then Sony Legacy in North America. Are these generally comparable? Similar sources? I know my Jeff Buckley Grace from Sony Legacy is excellent.

 

I picked up the standard (non-MOV) copy of The Score this week and found Kevin Gray's initials in the deadwax. It's going a few rounds in the Vinyl Flat first, but I am really looking forward to checking it out. I wonder if MOV uses the same cut.

 

Well hang on a second--99.999% of '90s hip hop albums are not all-analog simply because digital sampling is part of the production. This is part of the reason why I don't care to own '90s hip hop (well really hip hop in general) on vinyl (the other reason being pre-'95 single-LP hip hop pressings are consistently poor quality with low signal-to-noise ratio). Sure, the vocal elements are potentially all-analog in the event that the lacquer disk wasn't cut from the digital master (IIRC the majority of mastering houses at that time used this special Sony machine that was like a DAT but not exactly) but all the music undergoes at least one A/D-D/A conversion.

 

Report back on how it sounds!

 

If you are going back to that 2012 list, my goal was to really start a conversation and learn what may or may not be AAA. With 90s original pressings, 95% of it will not be AAA and with hip-hop that percentage is even higher. In saying that, I have at least 25 hip-hop albums that excel in the SQ department. They don't don't sound like big black CDs either. Yes, the 1-lp 50+ minute hip-hop albums aren't very good sounding. For the most part, hip-hop should be better on CD, at least in theory. Some of the one's spread on 2-lps sound exceptional though. The only thing that I can say for certainty is AAA from start to finish is the Beastie Boys reissue of Ill Communication...maybe Check Your Head and to a less extent Hello Nasty. Many of of us have thought the OG press of Outkast Aquemeni was all analog but I'm not sure this is possible but it has been stated the the OG press is hands down better than the reissue that is certainly a digital cut.

In my 2014 response, I was trying to clear up some of my AAA misconceptions. You are right, too much digital sampling would prevent this but this is interesting as well because what if the sample is being used as an instrument or a separate piece and just laid to tape (if this makes sense). Then if the mix done was to tape and then it was cut from tape to vinyl. I guess technically we might not consider this AAA but essentially why couldn't the sound be the same if the sample became a track on the tape just like an instrument. I'm not sure, I'm just thinking out loud on this one. This isn't really the case with most hip-hop albums though, especially sample dense ones.

 

That's a very interesting question and probably worthy of its own thread (if one doesn't exist already). AAA means the recording was analog but I have to assume the sound source does not have to be analog. Otherwise you'd have to exclude recordings of digital keyboards and synthesizers and guitars using pre-amplifier (or amp effects loop) digital effects. That wouldn't leave you with many AAA recordings. It seems to me that the sound source of an analog recording can be digital otherwise we need an extra "A" as in AAAA to designate no digital sound sources.

 

This is a good discussion...we can have it right here.

Interesting about Ill Communication (that's been reissued twice in the US TMK, first in '98 by Grand Royal and second around 2010). It makes sense that an album from that time period would have been mixed down to 1/2" two-track tape then mastered from that tape, so when it comes to the vinyl remaster (and the original master of course) it would make sense that it could very well be AAA. The only thing I'd be worried about maybe more so with vinyl pressed in the '90s opposed to after the revival is that perhaps certain labels didn't take vinyl very seriously in the '90s and just mastered a record once for CD and used that to cut the vinyl in order to cut costs.

On the vast majority of late '80s and '90s hip hop albums, all the instrumentation would have been from a sampling drum machine like the SP-1200 or the MPC-60/3000. If one of these albums were mixed down to two-track tape and mastered for vinyl directly from the two-track, sure, by definition it's AAA. But I wouldn't go as far as calling it 'all analog'. If an album from the '70s used analog synthesizers and guitar amplifiers for example, it would technically still be a purely analog recording. Anything with a digital synth or a drum machine (save that early '70s analog Roland drum machine) is of course technically not an all-analog recording.

I would presume that a lot of people prefer all-analog recordings because they either feel that they can 'hear' the A/D-D/A conversion on other recordings or they simply don't like the idea of the waveform being chopped up and reassembled. All the instrumentation on those late '80s and early to mid '90s hip hop records has been through an A/D-D/A conversion to get from the turntable to the sampler and back to the two-inch 24-track tape.

I can totally appreciate the idea that a vinyl copy of one of these albums might sound different than a CD copy, but the A/D-D/A conversion is technically still in an AAA pressing of one of these albums. However, I have done a few careful CD vs. vinyl comparisons for hip hop albums (one of them being with a NM original of Illmatic) and I could barely hear a difference switching back and forth, just a tiny, tiny bit in the bass; I would say the bass was a taaaad tighter on the vinyl, not enough of a difference to warrant hanging on to a $100 copy. I did the same thing with Rage Against the Machine's Evil Empire. The difference in the kick drum was more pronounced here but the CD and record were so identical I could only guess they came from the same digital master and that the medium itself was responsible for the difference in the low frequencies. OTOH, Radiohead's Kid A sounded distinctly different and I would presume that album had a unique mastering for vinyl.

EDIT: I just checked my Evil Empire CD. Ludwig mastered that, which does make me suspicious that the mastering for vinyl may have been AAA (I've heard that the first album is definitely AAA and also by Ludwig). If so, I'm impressed with the CD because TME the vinyl and CD sound very similar.

 

I just finished listening to the Sony Legacy reissue and it sounds incredibly good. I purchased it through Amazon, which has it listed as a 2014 release, but the back cover indicates 2012. The deadwax is the same as what's listed in the above Discogs link to the 2012 release, but with Kevin Gray's initials following the serial numbers on each side. I'd be interested in seeing if MOV uses the same mastering.

I haven't heard an original pressing to compare to, but this one smokes. The bass is tight as hell, the vocals are super clear with no sibilance or distortion, and there are a ton of effects going on that sound ridiculously good on headphones. There is a ton of air in the recording and you can really crank it up. The reverb/echo on Lauryn Hill's voice at times is so nice, like you can hear the room she is singing in. I can't say if it's all analog or high-res digital, but wherever it comes from, the sound is stunning. And of course the album is a classic, with very little filler. I highly recommend this one.

 

Early and mid '90s were a good time for CD mastering as well. The CD version of this is far from brick walled.

 

AAA would be amazing if possible, but even seeing classic hip hop albums being cut by the top notch guys like Kevin Gray makes me so happy. Albums like Aquemini and All Eyez On Me (Both done at Bernie Grundman's) sound so good on vinyl so I'm dying to hear more done justice

 

Agreed. I didn't compare to the CD last night, but have listened to it many times... some great sounding CD's from that time frame, including the best sounding of all time, the debut from Rage Against The Machine.

 

Picked this one up yesterday with my 20% off Half Priced Books coupon. Really happy with this pressing. Vinyl was flat and quiet. Side A very slightly off-center but not audible. I did actually compare a couple of songs to the CD because I wasn't 100% sure if some of the crackle was the vinyl or the samples. Turns out it was the samples.

Granted, I'm playing the CD through a computer soundcard, but on my modest system the vinyl sounded noticeably better than the CD. Definitely glad I read this thread this month and thanks for mentioning the Kevin Grey mastering. Otherwise I might have passed it up thinking it was another HPB grey market release.

 

I have an original of this that I found locally for $10, which was hard to pass up. I'm glad to hear KG cut this and I bet it sounds great and better than the cd.

 

You ever compare the RATM S/T CD vs LP. The CD should really win out here due to running time but who knows. If it was spread over 3 sides or 4 sides at 45 RPM....oh wow!

 

I haven't... I'll do that and post in the RATM thread, why not. Although I have to wait until my wife is out, because it must be played at top volume.

 

Does anyone know the difference between the Sony Legacy 2014 version and the Urban Outfitters 2012 version? Are they one and the same? Is the UO version also done by Kevin Gray?

 

Did you guys ever settle on whether the Columbia/Ruffhouse (Sony Legacy?) pressing was superior to the MOV release? SoundStageDirect has the MOV version for +$15 to the 2012 version, and the only listed variance seems to be their indication of virgin vinyl

 

I've never heard the MOV release. If it has the same matrices as the US version (KG cut) I'd go for it... MOV pressings are usually extremely high quality.

 

Do you know if he (KG) was involved with the MOV cut?

Also, what are matrices?!

 

Matrix #s