The Great USB cable debate poll

The USB cable is the only Mapleshade product I own. My only other "high end" USB cable is a Clicktronic. That one was a freebie.

 

Objectivists need to dig deep and get the facts right, and IMO, be able to present them in a clear way, which is a VERY tall order. Yacking about what you hear can’t be proven anyway, so for me, exchanges about what people hear are pretty benign. I know people feel that any subjective opinion must be supported with data, but really, that is going to be impossible in most cases. With USB, there are a few major misconceptions on both sides that need to be put to bed.

 

I'm kind of torn on Mapleshade, because on one hand I'd love to own one of their refurbished Fisher receivers, but on the other hand it's hard to gauge how much of my money is going to replace capacitors etc etc and how much is going to, well, "mapleshadery".

 

Funny thing is, it was 27% of my friends that asked for a pill? Actually it was one out of three, but she was a bit smaller so I rounded it down a bit.

 

The onus of proof is 100% with the people claiming they're hearing differences though.

I also think the ignorance of the objectivists is being overstated. Sure, a lot of us initially incorrectly assumed that USB audio involves error correction, as error correction is so commonplace in digital. But at the end of the day this all comes down to this: Any differences between USB cables are measurable. Especially as the differences are being ascribed to preventing errors, determining that one cable has X errors per a given timeframe and another has Y errors in the same timeframe isn't difficult. The cable makers aren't doing this. People should be asking why not.

 

Actually the ones that are stating something should support that with some proof, the others can just dismiss the statings, with their right to do so.

 

I'm hoping this thread has helped to at least disspell the "CRC/retransmit" myth.

 

See, but a civil exchange between like minded people looking for opinions in an area is just that. That may be irritating to some who disbelieve the entire premise, but why intrude? I don’t get that. Someone may like speaker X and thing is sounds fab. Well, they can't prove it sounds fab, but someone may take that opinion and do something with it. Someone may think USB cable X works really well with component Y. I'm pretty sure they will plug it in and it will work. I have zero desire to inject my thoughts into their exchange.

 

This!

 

You think it would, but something tells me we are gonna hear it again in another thread, probably from someone who didn't read the thread.

 

Here's the problem I have with this statement: one of the arguments of the "objectivists" was dispelled. But the objectivists can't dispel any of the arguments of the faith-based cable community, because they're not actually making any arguments. Lots of assorted facts about USB transmission have been bandied about, but the problem is they're supposed solutions to problems that don't actually exist.

Users of plain-jane USB cables are essentially being told their signal is being polluted with electronic noise that a good cable can fix. But as we've been over again and again, noise manifests itself in a clear and obvious way. It's NOT related AT ALL to better bass, treble, flow of music, etc - all things that can be impacted with measurable capacitance with analog cables, at least in phono applications. It's all just the same assumption that digital cables work like analog cables over, and over, and over again.

 

Hey, as long as your claims that your USB cables make your music sound better doesn't include a pseudo-science explanation, and you concede there isn't one, we're Kool and the gang here. This thread got to 31 pages due to people claiming that those folks who don't hear differences "just don't understand USB".

The only remaining problem is that things aren't opinions just because you want them to be. Just because a person doesn't believe that water is wet doesn't suddenly turn water being wet from a fact into an opinion. I may not know the absolute truth here, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.

 

Without going into details, I have gotten good advice here but also some very, very bad advice from someone who was adamant about the information they were providing. Does the Audio Hardware forum exist as a source of useful information that is much needed to help sustain the shrinking population of audiophiles, or is it just a feel good place to pontificate? You'll probably say it's both.

Speaking for me (and I'm getting better at holding my tongue/typing), I certainly want to "intrude" if a less experienced person might ultimately make a purchasing decision based purely on enthusiastic "subjectivism" here. Is it any of my business? No. But there is a "middle way" to this hobby, and I think that way is the best way to ensure that the hobby survives.

 

Well, if you could nuke every post in this forum that stated an uprovable opinion, there would be little left.

 

Technically there shouldn't be a difference but to me there is. When my dealer told me several years ago i smiled. He told me take one home and try it, if you don't hear any difference bring it back.
It was at holiday time and i had several friend visiting, we put it in and listened took it out and listened again. Everyone instantly agreed it was better and it wasn't hard to hear.
I say try one, you don't like it send it back.

 

I believe that humans have a predisposition for tribal behavior and the whole "objectivist/subjectivist" trope just plays into that. Forgive me, but I think it's an intellectually lazy oversimplification.

I think that you and I agree that many who embrace high end USB cables do not have a fundamental grasp on the underlying science of USB.

But looking at this debate as win/lose is counterproductive. The very fact that this thread has lasted for 31 pages is a testament to the restraint of forum members and I see that as a success!

 

Well, I have a feeling you would consider things unprovable opinions that I would not. In my opinion.

 

This is interesting. There is a fine line. Lots of people here and elsewhere have speakers that I think are nothing special. Still, we are like schooling fish. Often, you don’t know if someone else will share your opinion, but if they are asking, I suppose you can offer your take and let it roll. I typically try and not be so on the nose about things and let the chips fall. I also change opinions every so often. Sorry you got some bad advice. Put it in a PM if you have a moment. I'm curious.

 

Regarding the advice, it was along the lines of a certain cartridge on a certain tonearm. Don't misunderstand, it was ultimately a learning experience (a rather expensive one), so in the big picture I'm grateful. I'll just say that post count is not a reliable indicator of expertise.

 

Well if it was expensive, it wasn’t me saying the AT F7 was a spot on match for the Rega arms then. Which is a good point, because this can be proven an verified. However, my opinion about the sound quality is another issue. It works well with my amp and speaks to my ears, but I'll never prove that. I do toss up some charts and graphs from time to time, which seems to be of zero interest to anyone.

 

I would be more interested in hearing what the perceptions would have been if the "new" cable had identical properties as the original in all ways - save for some superficial difference to make it appear to be a different cable.

That is million dollar question.

 

See here.

 

Yeah, I think part of civility in this issue is to leave room for those who know better intelectually but who hear a difference. They are not gonna put the junk cable back in. What to do?

 

Our ears and brains trick us all the time. Watch "Brain Games" and you'll see what I mean. Our memory is not 100% reliable.

As to USB cables. Data errors can and should be measured to compare cables. I still can't understand how a cable transmitting binary bits can change "sound" that is different than the source bits. 0% error transmission is the best you can do.

 

True. Well established and mentioned previously. I believe it is long term post two weeks that is 70% reconstruction. If everyone realized this, we would invalidate the entire system of courts.