Sinatra, what is the appeal?

September of my Years, a concept album that predated Pet Sounds or Sgt. Pepper, about middle age, nostalgia and longing, won the Grammy for Album of the year in 1966. The tendency would be to attribute the award, over albums like Rubber Soul, Aftermath, Highway 61 and the aforementioned Pet Sounds, to the general stodginess of the voters.

But, listening to the album today, they might have been right after all.

 

Previously I didn't care much about Sinatra or Elvis Presley, but that didn't stop me from buying some of their albums to diversify my collection. But then somehow their music just caught me and... I get it now. I can't believe it took me this long but I'm glad I did. With Sinatra there is so much to collect, but I am enjoying the collecting...

 

I grew up with him, my dad played his stuff all the time and I hated it but about 10 years ago I started buying and getting into his music.
I'm roughly 7 years older then you so me to. maybe its a getting older thing.
I like the reprise period material over the capitol stuff.

 

Speaking as a lifelong Beatles - Dylan - Neil Young fan, this is the greatest single song performance of the 20th century:

 

Appeal? ... Maybe... like he is so DAMN FANTASTIC! Will never get tired of him. Still amazed at how fresh his treatments are even after hundreds of listens.

 

I'll see you that, and raise you this

 

I read that Jim Morrison felt the same way. Now everytime I hear the "I'm gonna love you, till the heavens stop the rain..." bridge in the Doors song Touch Me, I think of Frank.

 

When I was younger, in the 70's and 80's (20's & 30's), when I saw Sinatra's name, and people writing favorably about him, I just disregarded it, because, at the time, I though of Frank as "old people's music".

But now, with that bias gone, I just enjoy the incredible talent and voice that is Frank Sinatra. He has a one-of-a-kind voice, imo.

 

I watched him onstage for about ten minutes at ChicagoFest in 1982. The friends(?) who I went there with talked me into leaving to watch some other trendy-but-now-long-forgotten act on a different stage, and I stupidly -- STU-PID-LY -- followed them.

Sorry, Chairman, but I think it was a cute girl who led me astray. I hope you understand.

 

and Johnny Cash who is the only person who I think competes with Sinatra vocally.

 

When I was a kid 1970s in the UK , if ever he did concerts the story seemed to be more about how much the tickets cost . At the time they were considered like outrageous prices . All I ever saw was some old man singing New York, New York & it put me off.

Many years later I heard the 1950s stuff & really appreciated the quality of his voice.

I suppose you have got to live a bit , have experience including the ups & downs of romance before understanding ole blue eyes.

PS His stuff sounds great on a hifi as well!

 

The irresistible charisma of his vocal delivery and pitch perfect phrasing coupled with great production and timeless songs. Sounds so easy, I think anyone could do it!

 

I did have this album in the 80's

Joe Piscopo singing as Frank

"Under My Thumb"

 

Its funny, but I was first exposed to his music through Linda Ronstadt in the 80's, and in more recent years by the likes of Dianna Krall (among many others). Although early on, I didn't know that he was where so much of the great American songbook had originated. However I only purchased my first actual Sinatra album sometime during in the past couple of years when MoFi has released a number of these on SACDs.

And yes, it is indeed good stuff! But its too bad that most of his recordings were released in Mono. That automatically rules-out any possibility that I will purchase them.

 

I thought this thread was asking something else. Like, "I don't get it, what's the appeal?" Almost lost it...

Well, I'd say you have to think about whether it's the music itself you're responding to or his actual singing style. Or his "interpreting" as many Romance/Latin languages call it which I've always found infinitely more fitting than "singing". The fact is, depending on the era of his you like, what you're responding to might be something other than Sinatra himself.

It may be the songs. Until late into the Reprise years which led to his last recordings, Sinatra was recording songs that pretty much everyone else was recording too. There was nothing original about his choice of music. So it's very likely, given that you said most other things you listen to are different genres, that the American Popular Music Songbook (and translated early-mid 20th century popular music from other countries) is what you're responding to, which would make absolutely perfect sense because it's genius, and that the ubiquity of Sinatra and a few others makes them the usual benefactors of praise for recordings that just hit more ears than other artists did.

If it's the music itself, then maybe it's the arrangements you like and the lush orchestral scores. They never get any recognition whatsoever outside of die-hard fans, but Nelson Riddle, Billy May, and particularly Gordon Jenkins quite literally MADE the sound of this kind of 50's and early 60's American popular music. I'd go one farther and say it's them that deserves credit even more than the singers for making the songs so recognizable and loved. Not to take away credit from people like Sinatra for fine technique and interpretation, but just to say that when we think of the popular Sinatra songs, it's often the horns at the beginning of "You Make Me Feel So Young" (BA DA-DA DA-DA, bap bap ba DA-DA-DA!!... ) and other such memorable references that make us perk up while driving or sitting in some place trying not to be bored. I personally think it's the combination of score and arrangement that's really special because in many, not ALL, cases other popular music singers did far better with some songs than Sinatra did. Which is not to say that he wasn't great. But there are some people who just did more with the same songs and were less popular because they weren't on Capitol, werre women, were black, what have you...

I'd say Sinatra goes down as one of the most well known and most technically rich singers in popular music. Which is a great "so take that!" to pretentious music people who think singing involves some level of elevated classical study when you consider he's a little guy from Jersey that took some singing lessons and decided to get in front of bands. Which today would be like trying to sing... well, Sinatra songs to younger people. (OK, SOME younger people, don't bite my head off, I'm not that old myself). Deciding to make your singing the feature of the show when everyone was used to dancing to instrumental stuff is a ballsy move regardless of whether it was him or the bandleaders that thought of it. Sure, Bing Crosby and countless others were already singing for decades on their own, but not dance band music.

Sorry for the long response, got carried away. But before anyone thinks I'm crapping on Sinatra, I own everything he ever recorded. I'm not saying this to be argumentative or the guy on the forum that wants to say the opposite of what's accepted for effect. But I would argue that we respond to Sinatra the way we do because of his technical brilliance and interpretive storytelling technique and choice of material, but also (and I'd argue at least equally or moreso) because it's what 20th century popular music became, the ubiquity his name achieved, and how that affected any other sounds from hitting more ears. I don't believe at ALL the old adage that 'if they were so good, they'd have been better known'. Pop music simply doesn't work that way. I'd love for you to head out and explore other popular music and songbook singers to see what others do with the same song. There are more instances than I can recall, for example, of Nat King Cole doing incomparably more with a song than Sinatra. And times when others, both men and women, fared better as well. But very few people made us feel as "Young At Heart" as Sinatra did overall.

 

One of my favorite Phil Hartman sketches on SNL was "The Sinatra Group" with Sting as Billy Idol.
Air Date Jan 19, 1991

A surly Frank Sinatra (Phil Hartman) discusses music business issues with his guests: Billy Idol (Sting), Sinead O’Connor (Jan Hooks), Luther Campbell (Chris Rock), Steve Lawrence (Mike Myers) and Eydie Gorme (Victoria Jackson). [Season 16, 1991]

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/the-sinatra-group/n10008

 

Frank Sinatra Resume:

capable, smooth voice
constant image of dominance & masculinity
adaptability & open-minded musically
communicated well with musicians & arrangers
a wise judge of quality control, even when his opinions were vetoed
business savvy
a capable producer, director and actor in film and television

 

Absolutely, I was shocked.

I was always a Dean Martin fan. His music was ingrained into my being from the early age of watching the Dean Martin show and those Golddigger dancers with my mom. She thought, next to Elvis, Deano was the sexiest man alive. Later a Tony Bennett fan. Something about the NY Italian suave crooning that men can bond with I suppose. An affinity for the italian musician appeal. One kind of takes a breath in and either breaths out romance or doesnt I guess. " Thats Amore".."I Left My Heart In San Franscisco"...A cultural sex appeal for a young man who was adopted and had no roots. It gave me a family sense subconciously in a sense. Something to grab on to, as I always have with music. Perry Como to an extent also. They formed my understanding of what a candle is made for in some way. Taught me unctuous appeal (not that Im either, but at least I know what they are lol)

For some odd reason, I never saw Frank Sinatra in that light. I was lost on what his angle of loves confusion and journey meant.

I dont think he was made for early romance. His is a different understanding of a man and a woman. One found in the midst romance and mid ending relationships.

Hes a mans man music.

Something nearly bathetic about it at the same time. A bit guileful. More a "Why am I here in this circumstance? You fool you know why you are here. But I love her so" Perhaps stories I didnt want to hear, with a voice I didnt understand at a younger age.

In my 30s that changed. Rock music had its season. A long rocking season of 20 years. Long live rock n roll and all of that celebration. But as much as I fought it, that time was ending.

My home when i discovered Frank Sinatra was from the 40s. Wooden slat floors. My gf at the time rather conservative and somewhat austere. My "party" days ending to be replaced with the comforts of hearing makeup being put on as I cooked a halibut dish. Smells of a made home. Very pleasing yet storms on the horizon.

And thats when I heard a soft stern knock on the front door from a man in a powder blue sashed fedora saying "...welcome to manhood buddy...I have a few things to tell you." And there it was. I had learned enough in life to click with Mr Sinatra. His phrasing made sense. He didnt pose any innocence. Nor play that he was perfect. Only that he was the coolest son of a bitch ever to turn a phrase. You better smarten up bub. You should remember, if not accept, how Im going to explain a man and a woman to you pal. And while Im at it let me sing to you how forlorning and lonely feels. But first, lets swing buddy. Something about a lost art of being a man in Franks music. Unapologetic. This is not sissy stuff. This is nearing your middle age and amending who you are in regards to music. Those Capitol side are the american male.

Yet also handsomely charming. I recall feeling the transportation to 50s parlors, drapes, wood slat floors and dim smoked dreams as I sat with my gfs head in my lap stroking her hair and "In The Wee Small Hours" played for the very first time. After all, the first was a grey label dry version in which Frank was in our ears and forever set in the beginning middle chapter of my life. The only other overwhelming musical experience that compares was when Bob Dylans music struck me like a ghost of electrical emotions



Its ten years on now. New gf, no more halibut and makeup days. But one thing that has remained is Mr Sinatra and his wink saying ...

"We're all men pal. Youll be alright. Let me sing you a song and we will have a small drink and talk awhile".

And when the person talking happens to be the singer who has the "voice", can hold that phrase out like its a conversation and tell the story as if you are watching him walk down that torch lit foggy sidewalk with his jacket on a shoulder or make you feel youve "got the world by a string" as you tell her "hey there cutes, put on your dancin boots.." ..well...thats a special musical friendship.

But, yes, I was surprised. Never considered Id hear Mr Sinatra as a connection. Im glad I was mistaken. Its been a gift and education into a different aspect of being a man.

A few reasons why I am a Sinatra fan.

 

I've been a Sinatra fan since my teens. He's my favorite male vocalist, Aretha my top female.

 

Although I've been really getting into the the last few years, his records were one of the few that didn't make me want to run out of the house when I was a kid when my parents listened to music.

 

Thank goodness for The Beatles and Elvis.

 

I think that's the ultimate compliment one could pay to the music of previous generations.

 

I just played some Sinatra for a colleague and they weren't dismissive but what interested me was the response that the voice was a little "boring" compared to someone like say Dean Martin who has a "much richer tone" and "better voice". Anyone care to offer an opinion on that?

I'm also one of the "newbies" where Mr Frank is concerned. I'm currently devouring the '50's Capitol albums and awaiting the "Ultimate" sets next month. I appreciate there is a lot of Sinatra material out there but I do not foresee myself ever becoming obsessive and compulsively collecting everything. Mind you, I've been wrong before..............

 

Sinatra, was the inspiration for many singers who followed him, Micheal Bublé probably the most recent.

At the time he had a unique style, which endured for years.

His song selection was very specific. He favoured a lot of the classic tunes, written by songwriters when sheet music was their major source of income.
No point writing a song if the average family couldn't stand round a piano and sing whilst someone played it, if it required too great a vocal range.
in pre-war USA there were more pianos than radios.
Consequently, most people can sing along with Sinatra, or sing the songs of his of which they have the record.