Music is music-no matter what genre.

I've always held your truths to be self-evident, but this is the minority view of things.

The internet is full of trash talk; it is routine for people with no knowledge of a particular topic to interject widespread condemnation for the topic itself. You can see this in any discussion that touches on contentious themes like politics, sex, religion, race, gender, sports, and even things like cars and finance. If I play the role of armchair sociologist, this phenomenon stems from a natural desire to participate in a discussion, a psychological need to reaffirm oneself by repeating their stated beliefs, an annoyance with people who know more than one does, and fears of the unknown, aging, and death.

This extends to music, too. So, in the middle of what might be an interesting discussion about what influenced 2Pac in his formative years (which were very interesting years, btw) you get some yokels chiming in how much "rap" sucks, without even really knowing anything about it at all. Some of that kind of stuff is sometimes racially motivated, consciously or unconsciously, but a lot of it has nothing to do with race, but more of an uneasiness about simply not getting what others seem to take seriously. A lot of the time this is a symptom of simply getting older and losing interest in music (which is why so many people whine and rant about there being no good music anymore, and yet never bother to even listen to any when it is all around them for free.) There is nothing wrong with aging or losing interest in music or other youthful hobbies. But when one's opinion is that one narrow spectrum of music is "good" and anything outside of it sucks, then one has kind of pigeonholed oneself as definitively not loving music no matter how many times they claim otherwise. Such lack of self-awareness is unfortunate.

As far as it goes on the SH forum, I think that most users actually are more respectful of and even curious about other genres and styles of music than is normal on the internet. That is one reason why I participate here; it isn't easy to find a place to talk about music, unless you just want to talk about the same five or six bands all day and snarl about everything else. Here, I do see a lot of people post comments like "I've never gotten into it before, but I'll give it another try", which is what I think is a good guiding philosophy in life. Yes, a lot of thoughtful threads about a band or genre do get interrupted by broad, uniformed slams too, but the threads manage to survive the cannonballs and stay on-topic. So, it is a good forum; the issues it has are symptomatic of the internet in general.

As for myself, from the moment I really got into music as a teen, I have had an insatiable curiosity to search out music I have never heard before. I used to have a habit in my record buying days: when I bought records or CD's (which was usually several at one time), I had to include one album I had never heard before in any genre, and one album from a non-rock or pop genre. (The rest could be more familiar stuff) I pretty much still consume music in this way, and I am grateful to that teenaged kid who put me on the right track all those years ago. The vast wealth of music far beyond the old Beatles-Zeppelin-Queen-Stones-Floyd axis is a wonder to behold, and something that has enriched me in a lot of useful ways.

 

Yes, saying it's the worst question is a bit of an exaggeration.... But it always seems the people asking it won't even know what I'm saying if I do spout off a genre or two and I always just back blank stares... In all my years as a music fan I've still not come up with a stock answer to it.

 

So what kind of music are you into?

 

Yes, but I don't enjoy it all.

 

No that would be weird

 

People talking over stolen beats; not music.

 

^^^I'm surprised that it took this long to get the predictable response.

 

Well, I would argue that the score itself is not music. And one time I would have argued that the experience of being at a performance of it was a musical experience though I know longer find that valid. I myself used to perform the piece often. What it is is a brilliant concept aimed at bringing about a paradigm shift in how people think about sound and music and the aesthetic experience. It was useful in helping to open peoples minds up about music 60 years ago, but no, it is not ultimately a musical experience.

 

There are many ways of defining music and the example you give fits each and everyone of those. So in this case I suggest you to check out Wikipedia or any dictionary. There you will see that your example indead is music.
But I guess it s a kind of music you don t enjoy.

 

Well so far this have been an interesting discussion.

 

Beats are a form of music. Rapping to a rhythm is a kind of vocal. Hip hop often includes other instruments as well, like keyboards and even guitars. Whether or not it's good music is up the individual, but saying it's not music because you don't like it is silly. My grandma used to say that rock wasn't music because it was too loud and she didn't like the way they sang, but her assertion didn't make it so.

 

I have no problem with the idea of rap, it's just that it's always failed to move me as music or compare with actual instrumental music. It's extremely embarrassing in the Rock Hall Of Fame during the end jam when there's a rap group inducted.

 

Music is none of my business.

 

Ok but whatever feelings you have regarding hip-hop has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Besides there are lot s of hip-hop using what you woukd Call "real" instruments. I highly recomend you to listen to the Roots-absolute genius musician doin among other things Hip-hop.

 

I remember someone made up a genre called 'spiv rock' to classify Joe Jackson. It's enough to make you swear off reading reviews forever.
I wonder how much of the classification crap was clueless editors demanding that writers find ways to classify the sound in short, terse, phrases.

 

There's no such thing as a bad genre, only bad songs.

 

Sure, but there are genres that I completely don't identify with. I find really extreme examples of noise music like Merzbow to be viscerally unpleasant. I'm not sure if you could even call what he produces "songs" in any conventional sense, but it's still music.

 

Music may be music, but you have to have some standards. There is an awful lot of bad music out there--way more than there is good music. This wishy wash business about not wanting to hurt peoples' feelings about lesser music--grow a pair. Yes, it's about opinions, but most here have listened to a lot of music--you should be able to tell that some is just product.

For the "it's all good" people--are you like that with food also? McDonalds is as good as a gormet meal?

 

I have not seen anyone here claim its all good. . But who would set the standards of what s good or bad. You perhaps? Or me? Or the president?
Or maybe it s up to the listeners to decide for themself?

 

I agree that there's an awful lot of garbage out there and most of us like to think that we have standards, but who's to say exactly which standards are right or wrong? Most of us around here tend to think that rock produced a lot of great stuff over the years, but identifying exactly which bands are the best and which ones are crap can get pretty dicey from listener to listener. Then again, there are plenty of classical and jazz fans who would scoff at the notion that any kind of rock amounted to a "gourmet meal" of music, so obviously standards are a very subjective thing.

 

Dracula's preferred genre had unusual harmonies and no beat...

“Listen to them, the children of the night. What music they make!”

 

I would love to find a station/streaming channel that mixes genres like top 40 did back in the day.

 

I pretty much hate the genre classifications as far as listening goes. I couldn't care less about what genre something I enjoy is in - I just play what I like.

Where I do like genre's is in seeking music out - it can really help. However, it's all gone a bit ridiculous. Remember when there was simply Ambient as a genre? Now there's Dark Ambient, Ambient Dub..... When I grew up we called it Hard Rock, or Heavy Rock. Heavy Metal then came in.

Industrial Music now has 13 sub-genres, apparently. WTF?

 

Let me share my opinion, because I tend to see views like this put forward in threads like this.

Posts like yours are kind of funny to me because anytime I see self appointed tastemakers (not calling you one) discuss what they deem to be good, my eyes glaze over since much of what they hold in high regard does absolutely nothing for me. Even then, I don't make it a point to tell them that I think what they hold in high regard is "lesser" because I happen to think so. That seems pointless. What is to be gained from that?

This is all subjective, even though it comes across to me that you think acknowledging subjectivity is about not wanting to hurt people's feelings about "lesser music" and that they should grow a pair. I have a healthy pair, thank you very much. Telling people what they like is "lesser" has nothing to do with testicular fortitude. It does have everything to do with being an insufferable jerk. Who gets to decide what is lesser in the first place? You? On what authority? Who gave you that authority? I'm weary of people who go out of their way to do this. It seems very paternalistic, not to mention unsolicited.

Don't misconstrue the above as me saying you shouldn't have opinions or that you shouldn't voice them. Not at all. From my observations, when people go on about voicing their opinions on what they don't like, it's rarely just voicing an opinion on what they don't like and then leaving it at that. It comes with baggage. For example, it's rarely "Hey man, I'm not into rap music at all. I never cared much for it." It's usually "Can't spell crap without rap."

This doesn't bother me, but I just find people who operate in such a disingenuous manner to be pathetic. They aren't interested in offering a different view. They primarily want to insult and malign. It's ok to not like things, but many hide behind "their opinions" as a way to hurl insults. When called out on it, they will hide behind the shield of "it's my opinion". Let's be real about it.

The other issue is that some people think their opinions are "the truth". They want to hit people over the head with it. They think their opinions are golden and anyone whose opinions falls outside of what they deem to be great has lesser tastes and opinions. I see this play out time and time again. It's not about vocalizing differing views. It's about maligning things they don't like. That's all they are interested in. These are the people who always find the threads on things they don't like to threadcrap. Saying they aren't into something is not enough. They must trash it i.e. "lesser". Of course what they like never falls into that "lesser" category. Funny how that works. I remember a poster here a while ago viciously trashing Beyonce with a level of vitriol that would make you think Beyonce punched his mom in the face. This poster is a big fan of The Monkees. This man probably fancies himself to be a tastemaker too I bet.

Let's get into your food comparison. I think it's flawed.

I'm a lover of fine dining. I like to cook as well. I frequently dine in restaurants that would be categorized as "gourmet". Let me tell you, I've eaten my fair share of terrible gourmet meals at some of the finest restaurants. Gourmet doesn't equate to good. Gourmet largely means refined and discriminating taste. Part of that is using high quality ingredients and part of that is in the presentation. All of that is not synonymous with 'always tasting best'. I posit that some cheap food is in fact better. There are no absolutes, even though some think there is. What if I told you that I prefer the fries at Burger King than the fries at Peter Luger Steakhouse?

The mistake people often make is that they create this binary mindset where it's the good stuff vs the bad stuff, like your McDonalds and gourmet comparison. Binary thinking is a mistake. It leaves no room for nuance. There is no fluidity. You could be talking about a fine porterhouse steak at a top of the line steakhouse like Peter Luger and will go on about how superb it is compared to the cheap cuts of meat at a fast food joint, ignoring that this comparison is meaningless to a vegetarian as it is not applicable to their life or tastes. Nuance like that gets lost, but in your mind, you think you're making sense for everyone. Music is like this. How many threads of The Stones, Beatles, The Who, Led Zeppellin, Pink Floyd, Dire Straits etc gets posted here time and time again? Lots. None of it is relevant to me. I am the vegetarian caught in a conversation about which cut of meat is best.

Another problem with your example is that it ignores the fact that something being gourmet doesn't mean it's splendid by default. It also ignores the fact that sometimes fast food hits the spot. One of the best meals I've ever had was a shrimp po'boy in a dodgy part of town in New Orleans. It cost me $5. It certainly wouldn't win any presentation awards, but it was delicious. That $5 meal was leaps and bounds better than some meals I've had in some of the finest establishments that cost me a whole lot more.

Another point to consider. Maybe some don't want gourmet to begin with. Have you considered that? This doesn't make their opinion "lesser". Perhaps they genuinely aren't interested. Leave room for freedom of taste, thoughts, ideas and expressions.

While some people have decided to be the arbiters of what is good by relegating themselves to the task of making comparisons that no one asked them to, the rest of us are eating what we want to eat. Maybe you should fix your plate and worry less about what is on the next person's plate. Go by this philosophy, "What you eat doesn't make me $hit".

Now, someone pass me some cheap burgers and fries. I'll have it with a 1961 Chateau La Mission Haut Brion Pessac Leognan, while some of you argue about whether McDonalds is as good as gourmet.