Upgrade advice please!!!

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by scott1a, Mar 5, 2015.

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  1. scott1a

    scott1a Professor Sleestak Thread Starter

    Location:
    Brielle NJ
    Hi everyone,

    Thanks so much in advance for any help!

    I currently have this system:

    -Marantz 2230
    -Thorens td 166 mk ii - custom modified - with an OM30
    -Timewindows 1a speakers

    I am satisfied with the system but definitely feel it's lacking some things. I do not want to change the turntable, but I am open to suggestions regarding the receiver, the speakers, or any other add ons.

    My thoughts on my current system:
    Jazz and acoustic sounds best, harder rock etc lacks some balls.
    The 2230, while sounding great, seems under powered for my room and speakers.
    The speakers sound great (I've used dcms for the past 25 years), but I don't feel like I get an accurate soundstage. I spent a lot of time with stands and speaker positioning and have definitely improved the sound, but something still seems missing. I wonder what I could get with newer speakers, or maybe even a more powerful receiver.

    Room has no treatments and placement isn't ideal (one speaker close to corner), but it's what I have to work with.

    Money:
    I'm not in a position to drop a lot of money right now, but is like to have my sights set on something if I need to save up. Ideally I'd like to keep the first upgrade under $1000 - but I'm certainly open to suggestions above and below that price point.

    Thanks again!!!
     
  2. Ntotrar

    Ntotrar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tri-Cities TN
    Have either or both your Marantz and/or DCM been serviced in the last 20 years or so? Electronic components (electrolytic caps etc...) do degrade, this might not be obvious as the changes occur gradually. You might be served best by having the system components serviced by competent technician. Specifically your Marantz may be worth servicing or selling "as is" to finance a new unit.

    If your unwilling to go the service route I would buy new or newer speakers first. Followed by receiver or intergraded amp.
     
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  3. Colin M

    Colin M Forum Resident

    You could switch to using the receiver as a preamp and add a power amp to your system. I believe the speakers are rated 10-200W.
     
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  4. adamdube

    adamdube Forum Resident

    Location:
    Elyria, OH USA
    It's, to me any, pretty clear the issue....you are under powered. Those speakers are very inefficient at 89 db and you are only sending a mere 30 watts to them. makes sense why it's OK for most stuff but rock suffers.....kick drums and such need some head room. There was another member here with the same receiver and IIRC the same 89db speakers (another brand). He ended up with some 92db ADS speakers and everything was much better for him in the end.

    Looking at the receiver, you could add an amp to it easily. I would look for a used B&K ST-202 or the early ST-140. Your ears will thank you.
     
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  5. scott1a

    scott1a Professor Sleestak Thread Starter

    Location:
    Brielle NJ
    Thanks to you all!

    Yes the marantz was fully serviced a year ago. The DCMs have never been serviced, but look great. I can hear sound from the tweeters and the woofers and it sounds as I would think it should to my ears. Is it worth having them serviced?

    I think I am underpowered as well. So I can keep the receiver and add an amp to it? It would increase the power but still filter through the receiver? Apologies for the ignorance but I have only ever owned integrated receivers. Would the amp color the sound at all or simply amplify it? I assume the marantz would feed into the amp which would attach to the speakers?

    So would I be better off adding an amp first or looking to upgrade to more efficient speakers?


     
  6. Ntotrar

    Ntotrar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tri-Cities TN
    If you are satisfied with the DCMs and the Marantz is up to specification you may want to go the power amp route. New or used is the question.
     
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  7. Colin M

    Colin M Forum Resident

    Yes the addition is simple, the Marantz has external jumpers between the preamp and it's 30W power amp sections on the rear. Remove these and connect from the preamp to a sperate power amp of your choice. As for colouration, yes will likely be different to the Marantz power section... but, hey, you've still got all the tone controls available. I wouldn't know the US market to assess a sub $1000 option. Always a Quad 909 but probably wouldn't propose one for heavy rock.
     
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  8. scott1a

    scott1a Professor Sleestak Thread Starter

    Location:
    Brielle NJ
    That's question 1, question 2 is where other than craigslist or ebay can I find an amp like this? I checked just now on audiogon and a few other places and couldn't find either of the recommended amps.
     
  9. scott1a

    scott1a Professor Sleestak Thread Starter

    Location:
    Brielle NJ
    External jumpers? Greek to me... But that's ok. When the time comes I'm sure I will figure it out.

    I do listen to all types of music (no classical, pop or easy listening - otherwise I cover all bases), and although hard rock isn't predominant, it's definitely in regular rotation.

     
  10. Colin M

    Colin M Forum Resident

    I'm going from a downloaded manual which shows on the rear a boxed section (below left of MW Antenna) Main In / Pre Out with jumpers/connects r-r l-l
     
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  11. adamdube

    adamdube Forum Resident

    Location:
    Elyria, OH USA
    Yup - when you pull the jumper out you go from the pre out to the amp's input and then speakers connect to the amp. Simple.

    You could also look for a used Adcom - like the 545MKII - nice with loads of power.

    I recommended the B&K because I used them for years, nice and clear, but still not too dry - rich is a good word. No affiliation to the one below, but with Ebay protecting buyers so well these days, the one below is an excellent deal. $259 shipped! Seller is also 100% positive feedback. Plus I think your speakers are 5 OHM - which would increase the B&K to around 100 WPC....it easily will handle the ohm load. I think you would be very pleased. I sold a 140 to a guy here a couple years back who was looking for a temporary amp while waiting on something else, IIRC......I think he kept it and is using it today.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/B-K-ST-140-...617?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5b0d70a759
     
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  12. adamdube

    adamdube Forum Resident

    Location:
    Elyria, OH USA
  13. scott1a

    scott1a Professor Sleestak Thread Starter

    Location:
    Brielle NJ
    Thank you!!!
    Funny that you linked that. I was searching for the 202 and striking out and realized I didn't search for the 140. I just found the same listing and set it to watch. I also found one on my local craigslist from a month ago that was listed at $150 (but is in a sketchy neighborhood over an hour away). I'm leaning towards this ebay listing as the guy is reputable and it will save me time, gas and aggravation for not much more money.

    Thanks so much! I'm really excited. Think I'll pull the trigger on this one.

     
  14. adamdube

    adamdube Forum Resident

    Location:
    Elyria, OH USA
    Sweet - let us know how it goes.....best of luck

    The St-140 was the first one that really hit it out of the park. Rave reviews all around. Tube like is what a lot of folks claimed. The 202 came next and was a more powerful version. Then the 202+. But, most folks feel the early 140's (70 watts) were better than the later (105 watts) ones.
     
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  15. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    I think my b&K amp is the biggest game changer in my life (as it relates to stereo equipment). It is like you are hearing the speakers for the first time once you give them some power.
     
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  16. scott1a

    scott1a Professor Sleestak Thread Starter

    Location:
    Brielle NJ
    Ok.... Now I can't WAIT to get this!

    Thanks everyone! Will update when I upgrade!
     
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  17. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    If this is your first time with an amp know that it generally takes some time for a solid state amp (not tubes) to "warm up". I've heard people say theirs sound better after leaving it on for 24hrs. I haven't turned mine off in years.

    Also, it is a very durable technology. I feel safer buying used with an amp than just about anything else. and they get pretty hot, keep it accessible to airflow if you can.
     
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  18. scott1a

    scott1a Professor Sleestak Thread Starter

    Location:
    Brielle NJ
    So I bought that ebay b&k the day I last posted here and it came today. Fantastic ebay seller by the way! Super fast shipping and packaged immaculately.

    Anyway, on to the good stuff. I've been playing it for the past two hours. Super easy to connect....

    Wow! What a difference this has made! Clearly lack of power was an issue. Everything has opened up now, and the sound still has the marantz warmth.

    I'm very curious to see if there is any change after this thing warms up.

    Thanks to you all for your help!

    wll
     
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  19. HenryH

    HenryH Miserable Git

    Congrats on the upgrade. :cool:
     
  20. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    Nice work! Congratulations on the upgrade.

    Like i said before, in 24 hours it might be a little better but not enough to be that different.

    Carefull not to blow those speakers, be responsible with your new powers. :)
     
  21. scott1a

    scott1a Professor Sleestak Thread Starter

    Location:
    Brielle NJ
    Thanks.
    I hear you!
    It's a world of a difference in terms of power. My neighbors are probably not as happy about it as I am right now.



     
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  22. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    Unfortunately I have had the police called to my house many times. The call has come from three houses down the street.

    To be fair it is usually in the summer when everyone has windows open. But yes, the amp will impact your neighbors.

    Also, placement of the speakers and turntable might be an issue. Isolation becomes a much bigger deal. If you push it hard it may feedback depending on placement.

    And to make you feel even better about your purchase, i paid north of 2k for my b&k about 7 years ago. You got in at a steal.
     
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