I don't know. That Mercury Rev CD that I posted was a cut out, with a hole punched through the barcode. It wasn't sealed when I bought it (price sticker on the case), but it appears to be an original case, and I've seen others like it sealed, as though someone went to the trouble of opening the case (which is actually quite easy and quick if you know how) and removing the tray card. Perhaps it only happened with relatively small number of returns.
If the symbol is linked only to the entire work or unique catalog number it would support the notion that the symbol has some corporate accounting or tax code significance.
I think a connection between Sony and US Columbia/CBS Records is the most likely basis for the symbol. The DADC involvement is only because it was a Sony plant not because the symbol is for DADC. I realize that the takeover of Columbia Records by Sony only occurred in 1988 but I am wondering if there were some other contractual arrangements that preceded the actual takeover? The one outlier is the WEA Coltrane album. Are there any others??
Would non-commercial promos play into that? I'm still confused with this line of logic. Let me ask a question: Cypress Hill "Hand On The Pump" twelve-inch has the symbol. Does this lend credence to this theory or disprove it?
Yes promos are classified in accounting terms as advertising as opposed to inventory etc. So it would fall into accounting tracking. I don't know enough about the provenance of Cypress Hill to make a firm judgment. I see it was issued as a Maxi CD single with 6 songs in 1991. If we follow my hypothesis, there could be a symbol if this was a stand alone unique work. In other words the songs would not all come from a more extended issue whether Lp, tape or CD but were first issued as a group in this way. If they were a subset of a prior issue then there should be NO symbol. Conversely if the issues on CD and 12'' and cassette were all exactly the same then they could all have the symbol. I don't know what would happen if an initial Maxi CD were followed significantly later by a full length CD with those songs plus others. The more interesting question concerns compilation albums drawing on selected tracks from prior album issues with and without the symbol. Do these have the symbol??
Sony DADC in Terre Haute, IN was originally started by CBS/Sony Japan to supply the CBS and other labels in the North American market. It was located next to Columbia House. Sony bought out the ownership of the plant from the CBS/Sony joint venture in late 1985. The symbol is one CBS label CDs for the US market regardless of the plant or country they came from, including non-Sony DADC plants. WEA Coltrane DADC pressed disc is an outlier - could be a misprint, who knows, but it is the only non CBS disc to have this marking. I have the WEA Mfg pressing of the Coltrane title and is does not have the symbol. BTW, the Coltrane disc is a retail disc, not a club disc.
Anyone know if the symbol was on the 8 track issue? http://www.discogs.com/Mick-Jagger-Shes-The-Boss/release/5856518
Very interesting.Not to get too off topic,but when would this be? When were the last cutout CDs sold in stores?
Thanks for the additional info. I understand that the US market is the key rather than the place of manufacture. Of course the symbol is not limited to CDs. However, the question is whether the other non Sony sources for CD and vinyl were done under contract by Sony for US Columbia or not. Since Sony acquired US Columbia non-hostilely only a few years later it raises the question of whether closer coordination and contractual relations preceded the takeover driven perhaps by increasing CD production. What proportion of US Columbia CDs and vinyl in this time period have the symbol? Is it 100% or less? The thread has conflicting information.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabla_symbol A combination of steep slopes (binary data/square wave), rotation and music (mimicking the harp).
I still don't get your hypothesis. All the releases at that time had the symbol except for seven-inch singles.
DADC became a major supplier (along with other competing pressing companies) to the following in 1985-6 for the US market: WEA (primarily 1986 until their own WEA Mfg. plant got running and up to speed in 1986) A&M (also used PolyGram/PDO in Germany a lot and Denon Japan & USA) Motown (distributed by MCA then and used Sanyo Japan and USA and JVC's plants who MCA used) Fantasy related labels (Fantasy/Prestige/Riverside, etc.) Capitol/EMI (primarily 195-6 until their Capitol JAX plant got running, then became a spot fill) RCA (to a lesser degree) MCA (to a lesser degree) Columbia House discs made for non-CBS labels around 1985-7 I have not seen this symbol on any CDs of the above labels I have also not seen the symbol on any other WEA label disc made by DADC. Chrysalis CDs in the US were manufactured and distributed by CBS (usually DADC) and do not have the symbol. No idea about other CBS distributed labels that weren't joint imprints like the Rolling Stones with Columbia or Scotti Brothers. So the obvious questions are: Are the any non-CBS label CDs with the symbols? I have never seen one besides for the picture of the Coltrane WEA/Atlantic disc made at DADC. Are the any WEA labeled discs from DADC with the symbol. Other than the Coltrane discs - I have not seen any. Are there any CBS label vinyl from 1986 or newer that do not have the symbol? Are there non-CBS label discs made by Columbia House (DADC usually, but also Denon Japan and PDO WG and USA) around 1986 that have the symbol? I have never seen one.
1. Has it been verified that ALL US Columbia issues (other than 7" records) whether cassette, vinyl or CD had the symbol between 1985 and 1994 or whenever they stopped? This thread contains conflicting assertions. 2. Do all compilations (Greatest Hits, Best of etc) have the symbol even if they have selections from some album issued without the symbol? 3. Is the symbol present on totally derivative issues that are Not 7" records (eg 12" vinyl, maxi CDs, tapes)? Conversely are there 7" records that are not totally derivative that do have the symbol? By "totally derivative" I mean All selections were issued on a more extended album.
Yes I thought it was settled that the symbol was Not intended as a DADC trademark. That was why I thought it might represent some business relationship between Sony and US Columbia exclusively. It is a fact that Sony acquired US Columbia in 1988 only a few years after the symbol appeared. The symbol also seems to have been discontinued a few years After Sony finalized its takeover in 1991.
Interesting as CBS/Sony (the Japanese joint venture record company) sold its interest in the DADC plant to Sony Corporate in Oct 1985 and the acquisition of CBS in 1988 and the full integration of CBS Records into Sony Music by 1991. Wonder if it has something to do with the Sony ownership of the CBS distribution chain over time.
I don't think you're going to get definite answers to your questions because they are almost impossible to answer definitely. 1. No, not verified that ALL were. But most were. 2. I don't think anyone can say "all" did. But I have some that do. 3a. Yes. 3b. No, it's never on seven-inch records.
Based on your response and further investigation of mine, I no longer think that the derivative nature of the issue is a factor at least in a specific way. The evidence does suggest that the symbol is associated with Sony involvement with the production process as digital began to ramp up and was meant to identify US issues from international ones for some accounting reason. It appeared when Sony was taking direct ownership of CD production for US Columbia. It was discontinued a few years after Sony completed its takeover of Columbia. It is possible that the vinyl issued with the symbol came from digital masters Sony was specifically involved in. (Columbia had been making digital recordings years prior to 1985 so the symbol cannot represent a digital master per se.) It is a mystery why 7" records were not included unless their distribution by US Columbia was different from 12" vinyl and CDs. The apparent ignorance of even top staff at the production centers about the reason for the symbol strongly suggests that this was a corporate level decision that was just sent down to the Art Dept to do and the production staff to implement without a need to know. There was an interesting article in the NY Times back in 1988 when the takeover was announced. I paste the sentences highlighting the connection of the CBS President Walter Yetnikoff with Sony. I didn't realize it went back to 1967. Anyway by 1985 the balance of power between Sony and Columbia was shifting towards Sony because they held the patents and production facilities for CDs. Sony and CBS Records: What a Romance! By Peter J. Boyer; Peter J. Boyer reports on television for The New York Times. Published: September 18, 1988 "For 20 years, CBS/Sony, a joint venture between the two companies, had operated in Tokyo. Walter Yetnikoff, then a young CBS lawyer, had drafted that deal in 1967. He knew the Sony people and liked them, and the sentiment appeared to be mutual. In the corporate culture of CBS Inc., Yetnikoff, the former lawyer who became head of CBS Records in 1975,.."
I'll bet that when we finally discover what it signifies we will find that it's on a bunch of stuff it shouldn't be on.
I forgot to mention this a few weeks ago. As I was pulling out promo 12s and vinyl looking for clues I found an LL Cool J 12" that in theory should have the symbol but instead I found a triangle on the B side that was actually part of the record itself. It was like a raised plastic triangle that was covered over by the label. I hope it shows up in the pic.
Time Warners interest in Columbia House had nothing to do with anti-trust issues. It was part of the settlement for Warner Bros. Studios to release Peter Gruber and Jon Peters from their employment contracts, with Warner Bros., so they could go run Sony Pictures. They went behind Steve Ross's back and he got his pound of flesh.
